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Old 12-30-2020, 03:13 PM
 
Location: Lake County
76 posts, read 60,028 times
Reputation: 61

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Jay View Post
G in MP, good morning. I think you did a good job of clarifying yourself.

As you notice, I said, EVERYONE has a choice.

I am not specifying any skin color, economic situation, geographic location, etc.



I was just having this discussion with my co-worker here in the jail. I believe it is fair to say that anyone that is incarcerated is here based on actions that they chose to do/ chose NOT to do.

And people who are able to have employment IN the jail have that opportunity based on actions they chose to do/ chose NOT to do.

99.99%...

If you had any idea what I was into as a youth, you'd be amazed that I work IN a jail... So LUCK DOES play a part in the equation. That is the .01$, although I can assure you in my life it felt like it was 90% of luck that kept me alive and out of jail as a youth!

So now, in addition to social work, I teach martial arts to give back to society. Youth need role models, direction, and need to be taught empathy, control and respect if it is not being learned in the home.
Master Jay, that's awesome you're teaching martial arts to kids, yes respect and self control and all that, those are life skills you're teaching them.
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Old 12-30-2020, 03:20 PM
 
Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin
2,462 posts, read 946,728 times
Reputation: 1947
G in MP, good afternoon.

I've been teaching Tae Kwon Do in Milwaukee on our south side for 18 years. Some of my students have grown up and entered the military. Many parents have told me I gave their children direction away from gangs.

I did a demonstration in the Skokie Festival of Cultures in 2019. I've offered to do seminars at many schools, churches and park programs in the Chicago area.

I truly believe the jail population would be lower if martial arts programs were offered to youth.
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Old 12-30-2020, 03:23 PM
 
Location: Brackenwood
6,318 posts, read 2,525,337 times
Reputation: 13699
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dport7674 View Post
Bring back the good paying manufacturing jobs that only called for a high school diploma.

The end.
Right, and then stand accused of "Environmental Racism" for wanting to put manufacturing and industry near poor brown people. Ask General Iron how well their plans to relocate from Lincoln Park to East Side have been received.

Manufacturing jobs won't be coming back in significant numbers any more than agricultural jobs are coming back, and for the same reasons: a huge chunk of the once-needed labor requirements have been automated out of existence. On a side note, I find it curious the pining for manufacturing jobs of yore never seems to carry over to pining for the manual farm work of yore, even though both employment sectors have shrunk dramatically over the last several decades for fundamentally the same reason.

This presents an intractable problem in that there always has been and always will be have a whole segment of society whose value is in their brawn more than their brains. When there was still a need for lots of manual labor, these people still had something valuable to provide to society. But the more we become an information economy, the less they can contribute economically, to the point where our country now has millions of people who have literally nothing to do and very little value they can add to an information economy.

We need to find something for these folks to do, and unfortunately "bring back manufacturing jobs" is no more a realistic answer than "return to being an agricultural society."
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Old 12-30-2020, 05:45 PM
 
2,687 posts, read 901,228 times
Reputation: 7710
Quote:
Originally Posted by G in MP View Post
Hi Curly, yeh Sowell has a lot to say. He points to the 60's civil rights movement as a pivotal time. Per him, up to the 60's, blacks were around 30% of the prison population, since then it's doubled. Up to then, 80% of black households were duel-parent, since then it has slid down to less than half that. Up to that point, black incomes and home ownership were steadily increasing on par with other ethnic groups, since then they've been sluggish. I didn't personally verify any of this, but that's what he says, and I've never heard anybody countering his numbers.

Look if we're talking Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland whatever, black people up in these parts are immigrant stock. They came up here in early 20th cent from the south (may as well have been a different country at that time), not unlike how italians, jews, greeks, poles, etc came from oversees. Being only welcomed into their own ethnic enclaves, this is not unique only to blacks....it's not as though jewish or italian immigrants at that time could just move into a lily white part of Chicago either. So I think it's fair to clump blacks in Chicago (and other midwest cities) together with other immigrant groups of that era.

If you follow Sowell's math, black america was on same course as all those other ethic groups up until the 60's. So why is it that blacks have become the main underclass in any give city, as opposed to it being equally distributed among them and also jews, italians, poles, etc? I suppose that's what needs figuring out, and I don't think mere racism is the answer.
Part of it, I think, was the taboo against "mixing races". At one time, even different ethnic groups were prohibited from dating and marriage (characterized even in West Side Story, and if you go back far enough, Romeo and Juliet, although that was more of a familial thing, I believe). I've read that it was intermarriage that allowed the Irish and Italian to spread out of their segregated neighborhoods. The Jews, to a lesser degree, due to religious differences. But the stigma against blacks and whites intermarrying remained strong throughout the decades. And, racism works both ways, many African Americans are perfectly happy living among people of shared culture, and yes, color. But it limits opportunities for everyone, to be honest. I'm thinking particularly of the episode of "All in the Family", where Archie and Lionel's uncle are both arguing against Gloria and Lionel dating, with the uncle saying "I don't want no cream in the coffee", LOL.
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Old 12-30-2020, 07:03 PM
Status: "And just like that, Covid was gone." (set 1 day ago)
 
8,135 posts, read 7,032,450 times
Reputation: 7366
Hi - I have another idea, i don't mean to be snarky, but it could help Chicago including the west side, no more riots & protests. but especially rioting. There were neighborhoods on the south and west sides over the summer that people chose to destroy rather than improve things. the reason/excuse being that they were standing up for people's rights. Some people blamed the fact that all the police were sent to the north side to protect it and it left those areas vulnerable. However, it could be something could have been prevented by people choosing to NOT participate in rioting and protesting. then they would not have needed to divert the police.

however, that didn't work in the long run because stores got looted and destroyed. Way back in 1968'ish, the west side had bad rioting where some of the west side still is destroyed from those very riots.

good news though, they are going to build a grocery store at 5700 W Chicago Ave block, its going to be called "40 Acres" and the neighborhood is welcoming it.
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Old 12-31-2020, 11:14 AM
 
2,148 posts, read 1,076,916 times
Reputation: 2848
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Jay View Post
Sunbiz1, good day.
I also believe that many crimes that are not violent nor involve crimes against person's property (such as possession of drug charges, and even prostitution) do not need to be criminalized to the degree that they are.
We have my Grandparents generation to thank for this one.
Reversing mandatory sentencing, as you well know; requires state legislation reverse 50 year old statutes.
Have a safe, happy, and healthy New Years'!
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Old 12-31-2020, 12:27 PM
 
Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin
2,462 posts, read 946,728 times
Reputation: 1947
Sunbiz1, good afternoon.

I am at work right now! But there is not a lot of inmates today. So I am able to have great social-work discussion with my coworker and have a donut and coffee!

One of the main words we agree on is: ACCOUNTABILITY.... People need to be held accountable for their actions. One cannot go out and assault another person and use their upbringing as an "excuse".

So if people are growing up without learning about responsibility, control, respect, etc. then they need to have programs like martial arts to help instill them.

An NO ONE heard me mention a person's color or economic situation as the only qualifying factors!!… Unless there are NO examples of rich White peoples that have lost responsibility, control or respect simply because they are White and rich?!?

Everyone needs to have caring and nurturing and guiding people in their lives.

Sunbiz1, I wish you a great entrance into 2021! Thank you for reaching out.
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Old 12-31-2020, 03:37 PM
 
Location: Lake County
76 posts, read 60,028 times
Reputation: 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curly Q. Bobalink View Post
Part of it, I think, was the taboo against "mixing races". At one time, even different ethnic groups were prohibited from dating and marriage (characterized even in West Side Story, and if you go back far enough, Romeo and Juliet, although that was more of a familial thing, I believe). I've read that it was intermarriage that allowed the Irish and Italian to spread out of their segregated neighborhoods. The Jews, to a lesser degree, due to religious differences. But the stigma against blacks and whites intermarrying remained strong throughout the decades. And, racism works both ways, many African Americans are perfectly happy living among people of shared culture, and yes, color. But it limits opportunities for everyone, to be honest. I'm thinking particularly of the episode of "All in the Family", where Archie and Lionel's uncle are both arguing against Gloria and Lionel dating, with the uncle saying "I don't want no cream in the coffee", LOL.
Curly, that's an interesting point you're making, although an alternate theory I heard is black middle class moving up/out, leaving behind the black underclass without examples on how to "make it", so to speak.
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Old 12-31-2020, 03:38 PM
 
Location: Lake County
76 posts, read 60,028 times
Reputation: 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitey View Post
Right, and then stand accused of "Environmental Racism" for wanting to put manufacturing and industry near poor brown people. Ask General Iron how well their plans to relocate from Lincoln Park to East Side have been received.

Manufacturing jobs won't be coming back in significant numbers any more than agricultural jobs are coming back, and for the same reasons: a huge chunk of the once-needed labor requirements have been automated out of existence. On a side note, I find it curious the pining for manufacturing jobs of yore never seems to carry over to pining for the manual farm work of yore, even though both employment sectors have shrunk dramatically over the last several decades for fundamentally the same reason.

This presents an intractable problem in that there always has been and always will be have a whole segment of society whose value is in their brawn more than their brains. When there was still a need for lots of manual labor, these people still had something valuable to provide to society. But the more we become an information economy, the less they can contribute economically, to the point where our country now has millions of people who have literally nothing to do and very little value they can add to an information economy.

We need to find something for these folks to do, and unfortunately "bring back manufacturing jobs" is no more a realistic answer than "return to being an agricultural society."
Good points. Train them to be programmers lol, I believe that was the going plan for replacing coal mining jobs.
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Old 12-31-2020, 10:37 PM
 
2,687 posts, read 901,228 times
Reputation: 7710
Quote:
Originally Posted by G in MP View Post
Curly, that's an interesting point you're making, although an alternate theory I heard is black middle class moving up/out, leaving behind the black underclass without examples on how to "make it", so to speak.
I don't think they are mutually-exclusive things, both can (and do) occur at the same time. As you say, when many blacks "move up" with better jobs, who could blame them for wanting to live in a better neighborhood, with less crime, better schools, shopping, etc.. If I came into a significant lump of money tomorrow, I'd "move up" myself, except that at my age (retired), instead of being a more high-priced urban area, it would be more rural, near a wealthy small to mid-sized city which offers good health care. Think Scottsdale, AZ, or if not for the weather, Rochester, MN or even Overland Park, KS. I wish I could find a good ranking for small to mid- sized cities for crime, health care, and weather, leaving out things I don't give a hoot about, like "diversity", "progressive values", etc..
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