Let's brainstorm ideas to revitalize the West Side!? (Chicago, Albany: foreclosed, crime)

[G in MP]

Originally Posted by Curly Q. Bobalink

I don't think they are mutually-exclusive things, both can (and do) occur at the same time. As you say, when many blacks "move up" with better jobs, who could blame them for wanting to live in a better neighborhood, with less crime, better schools, shopping, etc.. If I came into a significant lump of money tomorrow, I'd "move up" myself, except that at my age (retired), instead of being a more high-priced urban area, it would be more rural, near a wealthy small to mid-sized city which offers good health care. Think Scottsdale, AZ, or if not for the weather, Rochester, MN or even Overland Park, KS. I wish I could find a good ranking for small to mid- sized cities for crime, health care, and weather, leaving out things I don't give a hoot about, like "diversity", "progressive values", etc..

Absolutely nobody, Curly.

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by Bitey

Right, and then stand accused of "Environmental Racism" for wanting to put manufacturing and industry near poor brown people. Ask General Iron how well their plans to relocate from Lincoln Park to East Side have been received.

Manufacturing jobs won't be coming back in significant numbers any more than agricultural jobs are coming back, and for the same reasons: a huge chunk of the once-needed labor requirements have been automated out of existence. On a side note, I find it curious the pining for manufacturing jobs of yore never seems to carry over to pining for the manual farm work of yore, even though both employment sectors have shrunk dramatically over the last several decades for fundamentally the same reason.

This presents an intractable problem in that there always has been and always will be have a whole segment of society whose value is in their brawn more than their brains. When there was still a need for lots of manual labor, these people still had something valuable to provide to society. But the more we become an information economy, the less they can contribute economically, to the point where our country now has millions of people who have literally nothing to do and very little value they can add to an information economy.

We need to find something for these folks to do, and unfortunately "bring back manufacturing jobs" is no more a realistic answer than "return to being an agricultural society."

China has done pretty well in manufacturing despite this automation. I wonder if the robots work cheaper there.

[Boddicker]

The Left confuse me. They tell me race doesn’t exist and therefore genetic group differences don’t exist, like IQ. So that leaves environment, but I’m told never to discuss choice, cultural values and priorities.

Tell me which minority culture’s emphases is more likely to thrive:

Culture A: Academics, classical music, nuclear family cohesion and honor, civil obedience

Culture B: Entertainment, sports, God, perpetuated grievance as evidenced by the Anti-racist industry

[It'sAutomatic]

Ask residents if they'd prefer it as-is or clean it up so people can come gentrify it. I'm positive 95% of renting residents would keep it as-is. People who own their homes or rental units, 80% would appreciate the change.

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by It'sAutomatic

Ask residents if they'd prefer it as-is or clean it up so people can come gentrify it. I'm positive 95% of renting residents would keep it as-is. People who own their homes or rental units, 80% would appreciate the change.

As someone who actually lives in Little Village, I think I have a unique persepective on this that perhaps a lot of people on here do not. I rarely say I'm "positive" about anything but, roughly guessing, about 99% of the property owners and business owners would like it to gentrify more, albeit without completely obliterating the culture here. About 75% of the renters would like more amenities, less gang activity and violence, and more parking. About 99% of the social justice warriors who live in places like Logan Square, Pilsen, Bridgeport, and Oak Park who come here for the occassional demonstration and then quickly leave would like to keep it as-is.

[dtcbnd03]

Originally Posted by BRU67

China has done pretty well in manufacturing despite this automation. I wonder if the robots work cheaper there.

Because the labor laws are non-existent there. There's a reason they put up nets around Foxconn so the workers can't jump to their death. Tesla's Shanghai factory was built in 168 working days. No way that can be done in the US. The laws and regs in the US are simply too much a hurdle to bring back any large scale high school diploma factory jobs. If China/Asia doesn't grab them Mexico certainly will. Watch "American Factory" documentary...it's clear as day.

Fun fact - the Empire State Building and Chrysler Building in New York were built in a year. None died with Chrysler but 5 workers died for Empire State. With the rules and regs today this will never happen again in the US. But a high tech/educated solution like a covid vaccine did happen in 9 months via two companies in the US. That's where our future lies and our strength is through freedom, democracy, education and innovation.

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by dtcbnd03

Because the labor laws are non-existent there. There's a reason they put up nets around Foxconn so the workers can't jump to their death. Tesla's Shanghai factory was built in 168 working days. No way that can be done in the US. The laws and regs in the US are simply too much a hurdle to bring back any large scale high school diploma factory jobs. If China/Asia doesn't grab them Mexico certainly will. Watch "American Factory" documentary...it's clear as day.

Fun fact - the Empire State Building and Chrysler Building in New York were built in a year. None died with Chrysler but 5 workers died for Empire State. With the rules and regs today this will never happen again in the US. But a high tech/educated solution like a covid vaccine did happen in 9 months via two companies in the US. That's where our future lies and our strength is through freedom, democracy, education and innovation.

Ok, now this is a different argument than the tried-and-true, and tired, innovation-robot argument. Anyway you're right but this can easily be rectified by tariffs. Make the cost to import things made in those lax and exploitative environments a lot higher. And that freedom and Innovation you talk about is great, but it's not safe either.

https://www.project-syndicate.org/co...magnus-2020-12

[Bitey]

Originally Posted by BRU67

China has done pretty well in manufacturing despite this automation. I wonder if the robots work cheaper there.

Manufacturing appears to do "pretty well" wherever it chases cheap labor, until labor isn't cheap there any more. First it was Japan, then Taiwan, then Korea. Today it's China. Tomorrow it's... India? Vietnam maybe? And yes robots DO work cheaper in China because the operating costs there are lower for pretty much everything.

China has done pretty well compared to decades past because they've liberalized their entire economy, not just the manufacturing sector. In short, their manufacturing sector looks like ours did 60 years ago because their economy has just now reached the state ours achieved 60 years ago. And even as China's labor costs and standard of living have been quickly rising, the labor cost there is still less than $6/hr. Mind you, that's not just wages, but overall labor cost. Try bringing manufacturing back to the USA or any other developed country anywhere near that cost.

And as those labor costs have risen in China... so has automation. So even as China's manufacturing output has shot up, the percentage of their labor force working in manufacturing has remained steady over the last 20 years after initially spiking.

Originally Posted by BRU67

Ok, now this is a different argument than the tried-and-true, and tired, innovation-robot argument. Anyway you're right but this can easily be rectified by tariffs. Make the cost to import things made in those lax and exploitative environments a lot higher. And that freedom and Innovation you talk about is great, but it's not safe either.

https://www.project-syndicate.org/co...magnus-2020-12

It may be "tired" but it is also accurate. Manufacturing as a percentage of he employment sector has been declining worldwide going on 50 years now. Even in China, the world's current manufacturing powerhouse, manufacturing as a percentage of GDP has been consistently declining as they transition into the information economy. Expect manufacturing employment to follow suit in the coming decades, just as it has in every other economy that transitioned from agricultural to industrial to post-industrial.

To circle back: the impoverished parts of Chicago are not going to manufacture their way out of poverty.

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by Bitey

Even as China's manufacturing output has shot up, the percentage of their labor force working in manufacturing has remained steady over the last 20 years after initially spiking.

So automation does not necessarily have to result in loss of manufacturing jobs. The bottom line is it is no longer strategically feasible to rely on China and other countries for manufacturing like we have. And Chicago face serious risks in so heavily relying on the professional economy and gentrification.

Our incoming Administration has promised to bring more manufacturing jobs back, and manufacturing jobs were growing steadily in the U.S. before the COVID. So it is indeed possible, and strategically it must be done.

I'm not saying it has to go back to 1957 levels of factory employment but we have to make it a point to continue to bring more of those jobs back here. Chicago has to make it a point to compete for them. It's not an all-or-nothing proposition. I'm talking about a segment of the economy. The bigger the better but you have to start somewhere.

[dtcbnd03]

As BRU67 mentioned the west side could use a lot more amenities. Tri-Taylor has developed a lot but there is nothing to do there. Little Village has a promising stretch with Cermak infrastructure and Lagunitas brewery but still needs more amenities. East Garfield has nothing west of the United Center and literally no restaurant/bar/coffee shop/gyms commercial strip to speak of.

The west side could also desperately use a Home Depot, Menards or Lowes that services the 290 corridor.