Ordinance to rename LSD to be taken up in Transportation Committee (Chicago: condo, residential)

[Sunbiz1]

Originally Posted by Don Coccino

That's like saying Neil Armstrong isn't that influential when it comes to moon exploration. There can be only one first and Dusable is the first.

No he wasn't, first we had to steal the land from our Native Americans.

[Boddicker]

Originally Posted by Sunbiz1

No he wasn't, first we had to steal the land from our Native Americans.

How exactly was the land stolen? The history of the world can be described as peoples defending their territories, warring over lands, and seeking conquest. Native Americans were no different: they constantly warred with and displaced other tribes by force. So what? If the Nigerian army came into modern day South Dakota and "stole" land from modern day Americans, they'd deserve it because the Americans didn't defend it.

Is land theft only a thing when people of European descent do it?

[NoHyping]

Originally Posted by Sunbiz1

No he wasn't, first we had to steal the land from our Native Americans.

As my post noted and a given that ALL of us should keep in mind....Yes, before our European or even African ancestors came here. There were Native Americans commonly called Indians in the past. Seems Native Americans did not have a permanent settlement where Chicago is. Seems most were nomadic. There is a major historic Native American City with its ruins in IL near St Louis. It clearly is a Native American settlement or city going waaaay back.

Virtually every part of the Nation has rivers, lakes even cities named with Old Native American names or words and those words and what it was altered to in a European language like French for many including Chicago's name a more French pronounced word with a Native American origin. The small city where I live has a name derived from a Native American word and name long shortened. My hometown actually had affiliation to Thomas Edison and a nearby small city. He did not get a lot of honor though for his early electricity provide to the city and public buildings and home. Just a mention in history of the city and some books on Edison.

Many cities credit a founder or family or group of settlers with a leader as founder/founders. Most White European in ethnicity. Some laid claim closer to the time the City was founded as a town or fort.... Some acknowledge a further back settlement with a key person who set claim to former Native American lands not as a Native American himself.

Seattle has a similar history in early settlers given credit as non-Native Americans for its early founding. It acknowledges one man in particular who led a larger settlement group with his own family laying claims and living there and a town sprung up. Though this Colony was not necessarily a first.... it is one that permanently laid the claim officially.

Seattle also acknowledges others did come before them also. Just a PERMANENT SETTLEMENT is key.

https://www.historylink.org/File/303


Even for Chicago a Permanent Settlement and claim to the land again is key. Not merely just living there. But staking a claim and registered as a owner. That happens to be DuSable. For Seattle they give it to a man named Author Denny. Though he was not alone and others get some notoriety as a Colony and moving to what is downtown today certainly gave it added notoriety.


Perhaps some of you for your particular reason rather use Ft Dearborn as a permanent settlement that was just after the DuSable claim and DuSable sold his land and moved?

This I got from a Sun Times recent article on crime.... but mentions DuSable in this paragraph.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/2021/6/...ariant-letters

From the link not on DuSable... but a mention.

- Jean Baptiste Point DuSable was certainly a successful businessman who welcomed Native Americans as well as French fur traders to the trading post he established on the future site of Chicago in the 1780's. He also built an impressive home for his family.

- DuSable’s commitment to what would become the greatest metropolis of the American Midwest ended quickly, however, when he abandoned the area. As early as 1800, he and his family moved to what was still a French territory near St. Charles, Missouri. He died there in 1818.

- That means DuSable did not live here long enough to see Fort Dearborn built or to see the settlement he started become a city of around 4,000 residents by 1837. DuSable deserves -- and already has been given -- appropriate recognition


The way I see it. If some of you feel DuSable is given undue credit? Over zealous recognition cause he is Black? Promoted in this current era only cause he is Black which has some warrant, and feel another person or time-period should be given the credit instead? I clearly may have this current era ADD to DuSable's given credit..... still this credit was given decades ago. Not just now a bit of hype in some renaming. Time will tell if anymore naming occurs and if the current Mayor gives it a push.

Still if someone feels DUSABLE is FAR LESS DESERVING and another should have it? Even saying Ft Dearborn is really the true first settlement of a few thousand people that is the founding group or colony?? JUST SAY IT. Seems to me it is about finding a Haitian overhyped cause he was black. Half Black but looked Black.

*** So if someone else? Whom over DuSable?

As I noted just reading up on Seattle. Seems they have a group acknowledged.... though they still singled out one man as their LEADER and FOUNDER therefore.

Title that stands out as to WHY someone is SINGLED OUT....
10 Who Shaped Seattle: David Denny beat founders to Elliott Bay

https://www.seattlepi.com/local/arti...rs-1071537.php

It also seems that Author Denny's children were still alive when residents were bestowing honors already.
He himself was not taking the full credit while alive.

The colony from which the city of Seattle has grown landed
at Alki Point on November 13, 1851. It consisted of twenty-four
souls-twelve children and twelve adults. All of the adults have
passed away and only three of the children now survive. Of that
original colony, Arthur A. Denny was easily the leading spirit. For
that reason he has been referred to frequently as the "Founder of
Seattle". During his own lifetime, he modestly insisted upon sharing
those honors with the entire group of the original colony.

[Sunbiz1]

Originally Posted by Boddicker

How exactly was the land stolen?

"During the War of 1812 A. D., Black Hawk had fought on the side of the British against the U.S., hoping to push white American settlers away from Sauk territory. Later he led a band of Sauk and Fox warriors, known as the British Band, against European-American settlers in Illinois and present-day Wisconsin in the 1832 Black Hawk War"


https://www.geni.com/people/Chief-Bl...00014817569396

[G in MP]

Originally Posted by Boddicker

How exactly was the land stolen? The history of the world can be described as peoples defending their territories, warring over lands, and seeking conquest. Native Americans were no different: they constantly warred with and displaced other tribes by force. So what? If the Nigerian army came into modern day South Dakota and "stole" land from modern day Americans, they'd deserve it because the Americans didn't defend it.

Is land theft only a thing when people of European descent do it?

Exactly. From which tribe did euros "steal" the land? The last tribe living on it, or perhaps the tribe the last tribe "stole" it from? Or the tribe(s) before that? Fun fact, native american tribes were raping, enslaving, killing and maiming each other long before white guy showed up. Because, humans.

[Master Jay]

Good morning, I am Croatian and Mexican. My last name looks like "Mustapa". and my great grandmother's last name was Ramirez.

The Turkish Muslims inhabited former Yugoslavia for hundreds of years, and so that country has a blend of Christian and Muslim culture in its history.

Spanish and Portuguese sur names that end in "-ez" and "-es" comes from the blend of the culture of the Muslim Moroccans that inhabited those countries. The "-ez" means "son of..." So a name like Ramirez means "Ramiro's son."

I'm sure there was much beauty and sharing in those hundreds of years. AND I'm sure there was raping and killing, all in the name of their religion and national origin egos!

The point is, it has happened on this planet since "forever." Like colleague G in MP states: that's humans for you!

If we are ever going to move forward, we need to learn from the past. We can't change it. We are all here NOW because of whatever happened in history.

Do we need to change names? Do we need to put up/take down statues?... I don't know.. Do what you want. Personally, I wouldn't go into Little Italy and take down an Italian explorer's statue. Leave that up to those residents, I say.

Hey everyone, let's just move forward. If we think historically some peoples' behaviors were horrible; well then let's just live BETTER than that. Let's treat one another better!

Have a good day!

[Bitey]

Originally Posted by Don Coccino

So why are so many people triggered when they want to honor Dusable? Why weren't they triggered when they changed the names of express way, airports to Ronald Reagan or Mayor Byrne?

It's not the who, it's the what and the why. There was no brand equity in the name "East-West Tollway" and nobody considers it an honor to have the biggest traffic custerfluck in the interior United States named after you; and neither naming was carried out in pursuit of racial-grievance politicking.

[G in MP]

Originally Posted by Master Jay

Good morning, I am Croatian and Mexican. My last name looks like "Mustapa". and my great grandmother's last name was Ramirez.

The Turkish Muslims inhabited former Yugoslavia for hundreds of years, and so that country has a blend of Christian and Muslim culture in its history.

Spanish and Portuguese sur names that end in "-ez" and "-es" comes from the blend of the culture of the Muslim Moroccans that inhabited those countries. The "-ez" means "son of..." So a name like Ramirez means "Ramiro's son."

I'm sure there was much beauty and sharing in those hundreds of years. AND I'm sure there was raping and killing, all in the name of their religion and national origin egos!

The point is, it has happened on this planet since "forever." Like colleague G in MP states: that's humans for you!

If we are ever going to move forward, we need to learn from the past. We can't change it. We are all here NOW because of whatever happened in history.

Do we need to change names? Do we need to put up/take down statues?... I don't know.. Do what you want. Personally, I wouldn't go into Little Italy and take down an Italian explorer's statue. Leave that up to those residents, I say.

Hey everyone, let's just move forward. If we think historically some peoples' behaviors were horrible; well then let's just live BETTER than that. Let's treat one another better!

Have a good day!

Right on Master Jay, I'm way with ya bud! We're all here now building the PRESENT (or at least all of us should be), coz yesterday is history, tomorrow a mystery.

I didn't know about the meaning of es or ez, ie sanchez, thanks for spreading some knowledge!

[G in MP]

Originally Posted by Don Coccino

So why are so many people triggered when they want to honor Dusable? Why weren't they triggered when they changed the names of express way, airports to Ronald Reagan or Mayor Byrne?

Because of lots of reasons, Don. Let's start with a) Jean Baptiste Point DuSable Lake Shore Drive sounds retarded. Who's going to say this ridiculously long name out loud? Only a woketard would say this hot mess in full as a matter of principle.

But if they wanted to rename Douglass Park to JBP DuSable park or whatever, I wouldn't mind. I don't care if he was black or orange, he was the first non-indian settler here, I think his name should be linked to Chicago by default.

[Master Jay]

G in MP, good evening!

I agree with you, good Sir. We need to work on our present and future!

We need to do things ( including, at times, make changes) so as to make the next generation's lives BETTER than ours!!

As far as Muslim influence on Spanish, there is even a phrase, "OjalA..." which comes from the Arabic phrase, "In sha Allah" = " Allah (God) willing..."

We need to educate ourselves. Every culture should knpw its history, and that of others. Knowledge is power. Can it be a fault if we are TOO smart??

I teach my children and my students that. As well as: Practice saying things like: Thank you. Please. Sir. Ma'am. You're welcome.... You can't be at fault for being TOO polite.