Chicago segregation has improved but Chicago still remains most segregated city in USA (La Grange: condo, crime rate)

[UniversalTraveler]

You could take another 100 years and your city will NEVER rid itself of the gang and poverty issues that south and west side have been and continue to live with. You can be as positive as you like but looking at the reality of it all there is NO way you'll improve upon it. So as they say, good luck with that. Children and innocents will continue to be murdered and gangs will continue to proliferate. But go right ahead and try to prove me wrong. I don't see that happening. While I can simply remember a time when the south side (South Shore and the Manor) were near idyllic places to live and thrive, that time I'm sorry to say is GONE and that's forever. Feel free to point fingers at the whites, or blacks or the city government if you like. Its not going to change like it or not.

[ggplicks]

Originally Posted by UniversalTraveler

You could take another 100 years and your city will NEVER rid itself of the gang and poverty issues that south and west side have been and continue to live with. You can be as positive as you like but looking at the reality of it all there is NO way you'll improve upon it. So as they say, good luck with that. Children and innocents will continue to be murdered and gangs will continue to proliferate. But go right ahead and try to prove me wrong. I don't see that happening. While I can simply remember a time when the south side (South Shore and the Manor) were near idyllic places to live and thrive, that time I'm sorry to say is GONE and that's forever. Feel free to point fingers at the whites, or blacks or the city government if you like. Its not going to change like it or not.

Bull**** defeatist attitude. I'm sure people were saying the same when New York had 2400+ homicides in the early 90s and the Bronx looked like Berlin after the Soviets bombed it at the end of WW2. Now New York is home to some of the most valuable real estate on the planet and many former ghettos have been revitalized. Now New York has been dubbed the safest big city in America. A big turn around in a couple decades.


Same thing with DC. Was literally the murder capital of the USA reaching almost 500 homicides in the early 90s. Now its one of the most expensive places to live in the country and is far safer.



This can happen to Chicago too.

[coldwine]

Originally Posted by artillery77

Playing devil's advocate here....but why? So long as there's no law precluding integration and workforces are integrated and services given to all...at some point doesn't it boil down to preference? And given that preference is free to form, and allows for enough people to get actually specialized neighborhood cuisine and culture....can't that be a good thing?

I am reporting you for Wrongthink, citizen.

Here's my problem with "segregation" as it is being used: it's deliberately obfuscating the fact that economic prospects haven't improved at all.

I've already made it known before on this board that I own a townhome in, shall we say, a very wealthy area of town we are all familiar with. This was possible because of the Big Firm Boom in the 90's, and because I was a graduate of UC Law during that time.

But that isn't economic advancement for anyone. "Be in the right place at the right time, also, dumb luck" is the de facto system.

When I first moved here, it was a very wealthy community, absolutely. But it was also, decades ago, much much more diverse. There were families, for example. My neighbors were a married couple, black, with kids. Both were lawyers from another firm, and they were the ones who helped me get my home (thank you Mr. and Ms. Citizens! You know who you are, and god bless you for lending me my downpayment!) They retired, and their children moved south for cheaper housing and much higher wages.

I'm still in contact with their eldest son, because he wants to move back and raise his new family where he was raised.

I guess what I mean to say is that I live in what is becoming a ghost town of AirBNBs, condos whose owners I have never seen and likely have never set foot in "their" homes, and young professionals who are by necessity moving from one place to another as their jobs change.

That segregation is real, we all know. But it isn't the same as segregation a la redlining or racial profiling. These are no longer neighborhoods where people live for any length of time. These are not communities anymore.

No "person" replaced my neighbors. I don't even know these days who owns the homes around me. The families are gone. It's just me and my husband, a few other couples like us, and that's it. It's a slurry of constant new faces.

So what I want to see is a real discussion over why economic prospects have not improved. Why is economic opportunity unchanged? We have spent so much money, and had so many political reforms and taxes and fees and property rate hikes...

I want to know why the economic prospects, quality of education, and everything else I've been paying for is not improving the lives of the African American community in my city.

Answer those goddamn questions, Mayor.

[UniversalTraveler]

Originally Posted by ggplicks

Bull**** defeatist attitude. I'm sure people were saying the same when New York had 2400+ homicides in the early 90s and the Bronx looked like Berlin after the Soviets bombed it at the end of WW2. Now New York is home to some of the most valuable real estate on the planet and many former ghettos have been revitalized. Now New York has been dubbed the safest big city in America. A big turn around in a couple decades.


Same thing with DC. Was literally the murder capital of the USA reaching almost 500 homicides in the early 90s. Now its one of the most expensive places to live in the country and is far safer.



This can happen to Chicago too.

LOL not defeatest, REALIST. I have NO idea how you came up with your statements regarding NYC and DC being decent places to live these days. You must be watching news of 60 years ago. It is anything BUT. But go right ahead and live with blinders on if that is your desire. Most people these days do. I don't wish to crush your reality, but you are, I assure you living in another world.

[IronWright]

Originally Posted by UniversalTraveler

LOL not defeatest, REALIST. I have NO idea how you came up with your statements regarding NYC and DC being decent places to live these days. You must be watching news of 60 years ago. It is anything BUT. But go right ahead and live with blinders on if that is your desire. Most people these days do. I don't wish to crush your reality, but you are, I assure you living in another world.

Are you really likening today's NY to 1970's-1990's NY? 300/400 homicides down from 2,200 is unbelievable progress. There isn't enough Fox News' talking points in the world to argue New York didn't make tremendous strides with respect to violence. Whether you deem NY as a "decent" place to live or not doesn't refute the value of the real estate or that millions of people around the world find it highly desirable which was the point of his post. Politics really doesn't need to permeate every facet of discussion on the internet.

[IronWright]

Originally Posted by ggplicks

Bull**** defeatist attitude. I'm sure people were saying the same when New York had 2400+ homicides in the early 90s and the Bronx looked like Berlin after the Soviets bombed it at the end of WW2. Now New York is home to some of the most valuable real estate on the planet and many former ghettos have been revitalized. Now New York has been dubbed the safest big city in America. A big turn around in a couple decades.


Same thing with DC. Was literally the murder capital of the USA reaching almost 500 homicides in the early 90s. Now its one of the most expensive places to live in the country and is far safer.



This can happen to Chicago too.

While I agree that it's possible to significantly lower the homicide/crime rate in Chicago I'm not sure it will ever be as drastic as New York or L.A's. Those cities used tactics that are either 100% illegal today or would cause societal outrage at a minimum. Chicago also lacks the leadership, community involvement, cooperative efforts and public trust that made all of it possible. It was an effort on behalf of government, law-enforcement, academia, corporations, small businesses, media etc.

Chicago's locked up the gang chiefs and demolished public housing with basically no plan to address the ramifications that we are seeing 20+ years later. The mafia approach to street-gangs wasn't the death nail they thought it would be. Now we have unorganized crime which is arguably a lot worse due to who is doing the killing and who is being killed. Having a large contingent of the population hating the city and praying on it's downfall isn't a great starting point.

[Master Jay]

IronWright, good evening.

Sooooo, I guess if you ARE going to have criminals in the city, let the power be in the Italian-led Outfit of Cosa Nostra!

[Cool Arrow]

Originally Posted by UniversalTraveler

LOL not defeatest, REALIST. I have NO idea how you came up with your statements regarding NYC and DC being decent places to live these days. You must be watching news of 60 years ago. It is anything BUT. But go right ahead and live with blinders on if that is your desire. Most people these days do. I don't wish to crush your reality, but you are, I assure you living in another world.

I never felt unsafe in NYC, a lot safer than Chicago thats for sure. Maybe you're just not a city person. Not everyone wants to live in a small town despite that corny pop pseudo country song.

[ggplicks]

Originally Posted by Cool Arrow

I never felt unsafe in NYC, a lot safer than Chicago thats for sure. Maybe you're just not a city person. Not everyone wants to live in a small town despite that corny pop pseudo country song.

Yeah I knew he had to be some small town advocate crapping on NYC lol. NYC is incredibly safe for its size, you see people out in Manhattan at 3am having a time. Far safer than Chicago. NYC has 4x Chicago's population, yet you never see "40 shot, 10 killed" every weekend like we do here.

[ggplicks]

Originally Posted by IronWright

While I agree that it's possible to significantly lower the homicide/crime rate in Chicago I'm not sure it will ever be as drastic as New York or L.A's. Those cities used tactics that are either 100% illegal today or would cause societal outrage at a minimum. Chicago also lacks the leadership, community involvement, cooperative efforts and public trust that made all of it possible. It was an effort on behalf of government, law-enforcement, academia, corporations, small businesses, media etc.

Chicago's locked up the gang chiefs and demolished public housing with basically no plan to address the ramifications that we are seeing 20+ years later. The mafia approach to street-gangs wasn't the death nail they thought it would be. Now we have unorganized crime which is arguably a lot worse due to who is doing the killing and who is being killed. Having a large contingent of the population hating the city and praying on it's downfall isn't a great starting point.

Elaborate? What would be illegal today? Stop and Frisk? Stop and frisk helped but that wasn't the only thing that made NYC and LA safe.


Honestly, a point people don't talk about why NYC and LA became safe meanwhile Chicago still has 40 shootings every weekend is demographics and gentrification. NYC and LA gentrified all over the city, only did the Northside of Chicago gentrify. I always say, Chicago is 1/3 Brooklyn, 2/3 Detroit. The other is demographics, gonna get (un)politcally correct here, but cities with high black populations always have higher crime. LA's (already relatively small) black population has been straight up dissapearing. Black neighborhoods like Compton, Watts, etc. are all majority hispanic now. Most of the black population has moved either out of state or to the IE/San Bernadino, and of course SB is like one of the most dangerous cities in Cali now.


New York has a sizable black population, but it to has been decreasing and a major difference is that the vast majority of blacks in NYC are immigrants. These black immigrants usually have 2 parents invovled, higher income, etc. Meanwhile the vast majority of the blacks in Chicago are african americans who have all sorts of structural issues.