Chicago segregation has improved but Chicago still remains most segregated city in USA (Pekin: crime, lawyers)

[Cool Arrow]

https://www.wbez.org/stories/chicago...b-3a1011b6f457

Still a lot of work to do. Hopefully we will continue to make strides.

[artillery77]

Playing devil's advocate here....but why? So long as there's no law precluding integration and workforces are integrated and services given to all...at some point doesn't it boil down to preference? And given that preference is free to form, and allows for enough people to get actually specialized neighborhood cuisine and culture....can't that be a good thing?



The neighborhood I live in has a vast majority of Asians. The next largest group is Latinos. There's nearly no people of African or European descent for miles around. At the nearest commercial corner, I can go to restaurants specializing in Korean BBQ, Vietnamese Rice, Vietnamese Pho, Muslim Chinese, generic Thai, Wu Chinese, Hong Kong Chinese, Peking Chinese, Dumpling Fusion, Shanghai Sweet and a couple western hot, there's multiple tea and che places.....but I can't get a cheeseburger and there isn't a bar. (And no it's not Chinatown)



At a certain density level, there's only so much room for churches/temples, grocery stores, clothing stores for a given area So preference matters. I have a pick in Chicago if I want to hear mass in Polish, but not every neighborhood will have that.



In the olden days of Chicago, neighborhood selection was much tougher. Whether it was from laws or just culture. If the Ukranian Village was the only place for Ukranians to go....and some other group began making inroads into their neighborhood, it was either defeat it or risk not having a place to go as all other neighborhoods were defending the same thing. The great migration from the South disrupted a lot of these neighborhoods on the South Side, and the ones that it didn't, for a time...became more racist to keep it that way.



Fast forward to today, and I'll admit it's been a minute since I've gotten to go back to Chicago, but the unique neighborhoods that everyone can freely visit really became part of the charm of the city. Each neighborhood had its own gems if you went to look for them and some of those gems were because there was cultural segregation and a neighborhood was close.



It would be awful to wash all of that away. A cool topic would be listing the neighborhoods and naming what those gems are.


Now if it's a matter or using integration to bring up the fact that some neighborhoods are just plain under-served...that's also a topic....but integration alone isn't going to fix that.

[UniversalTraveler]

You are dealing with something that is quite literally human nature. People tend to want to be with other people of their own kind. Whether it's religion, color or country of origin. Sure, it was even MORE so this way in Chicago, frankly I'd have to say at least well into the 1980's. But when I grew up on the South Side (Jeffrey Manor) back in the 50's and 60's it was solid that way. Nobody wanted anyone of a different color to live near them. It's sad that there are so many stereotypes created regarding any given people there are. But sadly society has a very difficult stamp to remove. I moved right before there was any so called "White Flight" but had a few folks I stayed in touch with that gave me the stories of when it all hit. And when it hit it was like a tornado. But that's not the only place to have experienced that kind of exodus.

If I think back far enough, I can still remember when the South Shore and South Deering areas, even west of Stoney Island were really nice places. No significant crime issues and largely made up of a vast compilation of people from all financial demographics, from doctors, lawyers, blue collar workers, teachers and more. But then back then mothers mostly stayed home raising the kids and fathers worked. I honestly do feel it made for a more cohesive family and neighborhood environment. But I'm getting way off into my memories of when this country worked. Oh well. Guess that's come and gone

[Manigault]

Originally Posted by artillery77

Playing devil's advocate here....but why? So long as there's no law precluding integration and workforces are integrated and services given to all...at some point doesn't it boil down to preference? And given that preference is free to form, and allows for enough people to get actually specialized neighborhood cuisine and culture....can't that be a good thing?

Sorta.

1. What should be remembered is that this relates to residential segregation.

2. It is not just preferential -- sometimes homes are inherited, just like neighborhoods. This continues the housing decisions made in previous generations.

[dtcbnd03]

Originally Posted by Cool Arrow

https://www.wbez.org/stories/chicago...b-3a1011b6f457

Still a lot of work to do. Hopefully we will continue to make strides.

Chicago's black hoods have a LOT of work to do. Nothing is stopping people from moving anywhere they want. And nothing is stopping black people (besides themselves) from improving their own neighborhoods. If white, hispanic, asian, indian, jewish hoods are thriving and drawing outside tourists and gentrification and ultimately diversification there's only one reason it's not happening in Chicago's black hoods - culture. Look no further than East Garfield Park...sits on the cusp of the hottest hood in the country...yet destroyed by black people over the decades after the great white flight and nothing positive drawing in tourists.

I enjoy the unique hoods like Little Italy, Chinatown, Ukranian Village, Little Village, etc. for the character those hoods have from the efficiency of having a majority race build them up and display their culture. I've seen very little of that in Chicago's black neighborhoods.

[Hochita]

If you're still in last place is that really an improvement?

[Master Jay]

dtcbnd03, good morning, and good to see you here!

Milwaukee, as Chicago's little brother, is highly segregated, like Chicago.

You have, however, more of the little "ethnic" neighborhoods that we do not have.

I would say I started coming down to Chicago more and more, beginning around 1998. An area, like Little Italy, however, I did not explore until 2010. That neighborhood, year by year, it seems to have less of an Italian vibe, as more Asian and Hispanic establishments pop up there.

I must say, I do get sad when I hear people talk about the great memories of growing up in a place like Roseland (being clean and safe, etc)., and how sad THEY are when they hear what became of it.

[artillery77]

Originally Posted by Manigault

Sorta.

1. What should be remembered is that this relates to residential segregation.

The two factors, cultural shops and cultural population, are connected. And while proximity to home is no longer what it was historically, it's still a factor, especially if catering to older clientele that are more rangebound.

If you take away the cultural uniqueness, you're left with economic only. So take the gold coast. You can eat any kind of food there, get clothes from any designer etc....if you have the money. A Thai, French and Southern BBQ joint all have the same likelihood of succeeding, but they all have to target the local demographic, which in this case is the wealthy....or aspiring wealthy. That's the local culture. It's economic. This is the real reason people don't like gentrification. It overrides a community's original culture and supplants it with a commercial one.

God forbid I go to visit Chicago and find the entire land has become overrun with different flavors of Applebees...you know?

Originally Posted by Manigault

2. It is not just preferential -- sometimes homes are inherited, just like neighborhoods. This continues the housing decisions made in previous generations.

Respectfully, I disagree. Homes can be sold. Demographics can change. I'm White. My heir is Vietnamese. She plans on living in LA so when the time comes she'll likely sell and take the cash. When she moves to LA, she likely won't move to Compton, but she doesn't have to move to Westminster (big Viet area) either. She will live wherever she prefers (and can afford).

[Avondalist]

If everyone mixes then there is eventually no more diversity. It'll be Targets and Sweetgreens as far as the eye can see.

There is an upside and a downside associated with every choice.

[VikingsToValhalla]

People voluntarily segregate.
The successful Whites choose to live in predominantly White neighborhoods on the North Side and North Shore because they're safer and the schools are better. Safety and Whiteness strongly correlate with one another. Blacks have a reputation for crime which is why Whites/Asians try to avoid them despite the liberal platitudes.

Then there's culture. Asian folks prefer to be around other Asians because they share cultural similarities.
Same with White folks, Black folks or Hispanics.

Birds of a feather flock together.