The Bear Season 2

[Master Jay]

clevergirl67,

They all say the same thing about me.

;(

[ecureuilvert]

And the fact that Chicago has some famous "street food" (which isn't technically accurate, because it's not eaten on the street there, but whatever -- I don't know what else to call it) has been eagerly seized upon and used as a weapon in the "Midwest meat! Urban Midwest poor!" arsenal. Now all of a sudden deep dish pizza, hot dogs, and Italian beef sandwiches are the only thing people there eat -- you won't see similar confusions about New York City (which has plenty of actual street food) because the general low-information public is well aware that the city is full of gourmet restaurants, thanks to what they've seen on television and in movies. It's embarrassing locals (food writers and such) to the point that some of them are now disowning deep dish pizza.

A famous YouTube "Where to move?" guru, with (largely negative -- some very, very negative) videos about Chicago with millions of views, has said one of the city's problems is that "people there generally eat unhealthy diets -- lots of deep dish pizza, hot dogs, and Italian beefs." Absolutely moronic. Again, I'm in DC now, and I can't get a good salad or veggies to save my life. I can't even find a store (even Whole Foods) with decent produce. But back to Italian beef sandwiches, their prominence in Chicago has been VASTLY overstated. I don't care if they become an even bigger thing and people associate them strongly with Chicago -- I used to get lunch sometimes at a Buona Beef location near my apt. when I lived in the city in the '90s and early '00s -- but I don't remember people talking about them as a city institution back then. My family has deep roots in the area, as well, and I don't think any of us were even aware the sandwiches originated in Chicago. My mom didn't even know what they were.

But the fact that Chicago is a culinary destination globally with a lot of really SERIOUS, cutting-edge cooking going on (much of which involves something besides mean and potatoes! heh) is something the public, most of whom have no personal knowledge of Chicago and have never been there, just doesn't know about. You would be shocked at how few people do, and just how bad they think the actual situation is. I would guess that The Bear's giving the city's excellent dining a glimpse or two was a response to some complaints similar to mine about the first several episodes. Again, why didn't the developers make the central protagonist a Chicago chef at the outset, instead of coming back home to the gritty wasteland of Chicago where he's going to cleverly "elevate" the palates of the local plebes by making their gross grub more gourmet by degrees?

The fact that they're meat sandwiches, and greasy, and cheap, has caused them to be seized eagerly by people with a lot of power to influence who also have an obsessive need to portray Chicago (as part of the larger Midwestern wasteland) in a particular way.

Do you think one of the stars of Shameless being in this show is a total coincidence?

If people throughout the United States knew what Chicago was actually like, and what it had to offer, the city wouldn't have to worry anymore about losing population.

[Master Jay]

ecureuilvert,

You having a good day?

[Kmanshouse]

Originally Posted by ecureuilvert

And the fact that Chicago has some famous "street food" (which isn't technically accurate, because it's not eaten on the street there, but whatever -- I don't know what else to call it) has been eagerly seized upon and used as a weapon in the "Midwest meat! Urban Midwest poor!" arsenal. Now all of a sudden deep dish pizza, hot dogs, and Italian beef sandwiches are the only thing people there eat -- you won't see similar confusions about New York City (which has plenty of actual street food) because the general low-information public is well aware that the city is full of gourmet restaurants, thanks to what they've seen on television and in movies. It's embarrassing locals (food writers and such) to the point that some of them are now disowning deep dish pizza.

A famous YouTube "Where to move?" guru, with (largely negative -- some very, very negative) videos about Chicago with millions of views, has said one of the city's problems is that "people there generally eat unhealthy diets -- lots of deep dish pizza, hot dogs, and Italian beefs." Absolutely moronic. Again, I'm in DC now, and I can't get a good salad or veggies to save my life. I can't even find a store (even Whole Foods) with decent produce. But back to Italian beef sandwiches, their prominence in Chicago has been VASTLY overstated. I don't care if they become an even bigger thing and people associate them strongly with Chicago -- I used to get lunch sometimes at a Buona Beef location near my apt. when I lived in the city in the '90s and early '00s -- but I don't remember people talking about them as a city institution back then. My family has deep roots in the area, as well, and I don't think any of us were even aware the sandwiches originated in Chicago. My mom didn't even know what they were.

But the fact that Chicago is a culinary destination globally with a lot of really SERIOUS, cutting-edge cooking going on (much of which involves something besides mean and potatoes! heh) is something the public, most of whom have no personal knowledge of Chicago and have never been there, just doesn't know about. You would be shocked at how few people do, and just how bad they think the actual situation is. I would guess that The Bear's giving the city's excellent dining a glimpse or two was a response to some complaints similar to mine about the first several episodes. Again, why didn't the developers make the central protagonist a Chicago chef at the outset, instead of coming back home to the gritty wasteland of Chicago where he's going to cleverly "elevate" the palates of the local plebes by making their gross grub more gourmet by degrees?

The fact that they're meat sandwiches, and greasy, and cheap, has caused them to be seized eagerly by people with a lot of power to influence who also have an obsessive need to portray Chicago (as part of the larger Midwestern wasteland) in a particular way.

Do you think one of the stars of Shameless being in this show is a total coincidence?

If people throughout the United States knew what Chicago was actually like, and what it had to offer, the city wouldn't have to worry anymore about losing population.

Look, I get your point, I really do. You are frustrated that Chicago has this reputation as being a food city for slobs, eating fattening foods, unsophisticated. Totally get it, and you aren't alone in that frustration.

But The Bear is not the problem here. In Season 2, episode 3 or 4 (can't recall), Sydney goes all around the city, tasting all kinds of great food at good restaurants, to get inspiration for their menu. Avec, Kasama, Lao Peng You, others. She talks with a friend who is an executive chef at a high end restaurant that ends up closing due to post-Covid fallout. It showcases how much great, non-fast food there is in the city.

Then in Episode 7, the entire thing is filmed at Ever (look it up). The whole point is for Richie to learn how a top restaurant is run, etc. It's fine dining ethos.

So while I understand your frustration, this ain't the place for it.

And people aren't leaving Chicago because of the food. The reality is, crime has gotten worse, taxes are high, and with more people having the ability to work from home, they are moving to more tax friendly, safer, warmer areas of the country. Totally separate topic.

For the record, I have lived in the city now for 4+ years - and have seen the pre-during-post Covid situation. Now living in my second neighborhood.

[ecureuilvert]

OK, I think we can agree to disagree (and partially agree on a few points).

But when I say "lose population," I don't mean people not leaving (though many of those people could be seeking out places which are mythologically more 'hip'), I mean net population not continuing to drop, since new people are constantly arriving. As in if Chicago had a better national / global reputation (and one that was more in line with reality, re: something like food), you'd have way more people coming *to* the city to relocate (or at least visit, spread the word, etc.). Hype (or reverse-hype, in Chicago's case) can make or break a city. I just think we've (I still identify as a Midwesterner, whatever that would mean, though I've been in DC since '06) been treated unfairly and it's had concrete ramifications.

But whatever. If you like the show, you like the show. But I think in this show's case it's not attempting to be super authentic (in spite of its slew of name drops pulled from Wikipedia - e.g., Malort). It's more a case of (in Sun Prairie, WI native Georgia O'Keefe's words, roughly) "art not reproducing reality, but creating a reality of the same intensity." For what reason / with what motivations -- I don't know. I have theories, but I won't annoy anyone here with more text walls. (For today. Heh.)

[Kmanshouse]

You have a lot of opinions about a show you haven't watched.

Either watch the whole thing, then come back, or maybe bow out?

It's bizarre to show this much passion on a thread about a show you haven't watched. It honestly holds no water.

[ecureuilvert]

I would watch it, but I have a feeling doing so would raise my blood pressure. (city-data's bad enough.. heh.)

My spouse has told me how annoying it is when I attack art (music, a movie, whatever) he likes, so I get it. (I don't do it *constantly*, though; we like a lot of the same things.) Maybe people will like the show enough to give Chicago a second look and be pleasantly surprised. That would be cool.