Chicago handgun ban

[hank0604]

That's why I never said the tragedy would have been prevented. But our culture is just enchanted with guns and we need to change that before any gun control (or lack thereof) will have any real effect. Personally I think liberals (which I am, though not on gun control) are as much to blame. Instead of spending all this time over the past 30-40 years working to ban guns, we should have been working more on community outreach programs and such. I think I'm just frustrated with all these posts that act as though a gun is magical and will solve all our problems.

[Avengerfire]

Originally Posted by hank0604

...Instead of spending all this time over the past 30-40 years working to ban guns, we should have been working more on community outreach programs...I think I'm just frustrated with all these posts that act as though a gun is magical and will solve all our problems.

No, the gun does not solve all problems, but neither does social programs. In fact, I think many of the social programs of the LBJ have made things much much worse with poverty. It started a culture.

I just want to be able to take down a MF if he breaks into my place or tries to harm me. And I would rather do that with a handgun than with spraying buckshot all over my walls and possessions.

[Drover]

Originally Posted by hank0604

That's why I never said the tragedy would have been prevented. But our culture is just enchanted with guns and we need to change that before any gun control (or lack thereof) will have any real effect. Personally I think liberals (which I am, though not on gun control) are as much to blame. Instead of spending all this time over the past 30-40 years working to ban guns, we should have been working more on community outreach programs and such. I think I'm just frustrated with all these posts that act as though a gun is magical and will solve all our problems.

I'm not a big fan of the idea that more guns will magically reduce crime in the city, though clearly the ban has proved useless and if there's little net difference in outcomes I'd rather err on the side of more freedom versus less. But what I don't like about the "we're enchanted with guns" argument is that it allows us to use an inanimate object as a scapegoat so that we don't have to face the real problem; that being the moral health of our society, and of certain communities in particular. You certainly touch on that in the latter half of your post but IMO you put the cart before the horse; that is, the root cause is "gun enchantment" and we can't do anything before we address that. Yet there are several parts of this country that are steeped in gun culture but they're still not mowing each other down.

[cityrover]

I just read it passed.. :shake head:

Well glad im nowhere close and good luck to all the sane people left in the city. May miracles protect you because we all know that's all you are left with

[j33]

Originally Posted by cityrover

I just read it passed.. :shake head:

Well glad im nowhere close and good luck to all the sane people left in the city. May miracles protect you because we all know that's all you are left with

I'm not a gun owner, and I don't see that changing anytime soon, but I'm not overly worried either. Much of the US has alarmingly lax (to me) gun laws so I don't really think that loosening the restrictions here will change much, those who want guns are easily able to obtain them, regardless of what the laws are/were.

[Humboldt1]

Drover is right. We use guns as a scapegoat for societal problems prevalent among certain communities. I will spell out who has cultures that need to be fixed or eliminated (by assimilating), poor minorities.

Lack of education and poverty are certainly factors but poor uneducated whites have homicide rates far less than poor blacks and hispanics, with poor blacks being way more likely to commit homicides than other minorities, including hispanics.

It isn't just money and education that reduces homicides. It is the elimination of a negative cultures prevalent among poor minorities that leads to lower homicides and crime rates overall.

[Aquarius Queen]

You know I only wanted to know tax info and ended up reading these posts....I am 30 something and from the "woods" (Maywood, then Bellwood and Hillside thru highschool) This thought of poor being criminals...a lot of the criminals in the woods don't come from poor homes. They come from homes with parents working so hard that they don't have time to parent. Mid Class gave their kids everything but the time of day.
Before the crack epidemic these cities were thriving and then two things happened. They closed all of the plants and warehouses and crack was poured in (by the whole Oliver North and Rick Ross thing - look it up)... Crack ruined these communities...I had family members who just went from okay to horrible on drugs. (Oh and a poor person couldn't smuggle a knife on a plane...so we know they didn't bring it to the "ghetto okay")
Skip to today, you have my generation - some of us who raised ourselves - once again because my mother worked hard to keep us out of the bad neighborhoods...but in turn took herself out of the picture. Let me tell you that my most successfull friends come from the poorest homes. Because they knew when they got out of school that they didn't want to return to the woods...I'm talking doctors and lawyers litterally... So I'm not convinced that if the poor wasn't born crime would go down. How about if there are jobs and ways to make money....crime would go down. If they didn't close everything...the movies, the skating rink and everything we had to do as a youth is gone now. Do the kids want to be standing on the block...no adult will even look them in the eye, let alone ask them this and the answer is no. But they don't want to be sitting in the house all summer either. You have men my age, still gang banging (because this life is all they know) they had parents who were thugs and cousins and themselves and now their kids. This is the epidemic we must deal with. In the mean time in between time I believe I should be able to conceal and carry a weapon...one reason they are out here is because they KNOW the innocent are unarmed!
Oh one other thing...a while back people started smoking imbalming (sp) fluid on their cigarettes and in their blunts. This is called wack. This and crack make people crazy. Add to that the new popping pills thing...and we have a bunch of out of their mind teens and supposed adults...roaming bored...doing whatever. Also you have a history of the so and so's killed my brother...so we killed their whoever and continue. This violence issue is one that is complex and it doesn't help that the bellwood police are a bunch of jerks who don't know how to treat or talk to even the innocent. Who violate and brutalize people watching them...choking one girl because she wouldn't go into the house while they roughed up her friends. Bad cops in bad neighborhoods...just make things bad - for lack of a better word. I am a working citizen and have been cursed at and disrespected by them...so don't tell me that they work so hard and all that BS because when you forget to treat people with respect...you will never have the respect of those you are working for (which they forget) which are the paying citizens...paying taxes.
Once they lied in a report - trying to send my spouse to jail (for being drunk and talking sh*t)...lied and said he tried to take the tazer when he was trying not to be tazed in the heart... it took the one honest cop on the scene to step up and tell the truth (they aren't all bad)...but how many lies do they get away with I wonder. Fatherless children are more likely to do bad...and when you have cops that just seen these men as enemies and not as people. Well you have a problem. Do you even know how much tax money is speant in the woods covering up the deeds of bad cops with pay offs?

Anyway...the gun ban only takes guns out of the hands of homeowners and citizens and leave it to the cops to after the fact solve the crimes against the innocent. Dialing 911 is not always an option...but like my uncle who was being car jacked and pulled out his pistol and saved his own life (my uncle is 87)...we deserve a chance to protect ourselves while we can.

[WhaThe]

Originally Posted by Aquarius Queen

...we deserve a chance to protect ourselves while we can.

Your right. I think of that a lot these days ever since the thugs have been killing police. I mean, they are not going to think twice about taking me out.

I'd like to be able to return fire.