Reputation of Oakland/Kenwood (Chicago, Washington: rental, how much, homes)

[AQUEMINI331]

Originally Posted by westender

The South Side was the more affluent side of town. Emphasis on WAS.

South Kenwood (which is 47th to 51st, Drexel to the Lake) is still affluent. Many, if not most, homes there are mansions. Many long-resident families have been there since the 1920s. Many newer, wealthy black families also. These estates are not and never have been cheap, even in the 1970s. I lived at 48th & Kimbark in my early 20s and had no troubles walking around at all hours. Also lived in Hyde Park (several locations), which in my opinion was slightly more dicey but relatively safe. Hyde Park runs from 51st to 60th Streets, Cottage Grove to the Lake.

North Kenwood is completely different. Not sure where Oakland and Bronzeville end and North Kenwood begins, but generally everything from State Street east to the Lake between IIT (35th Street) and 47th Street is still worrisome. I would not live in that area. South Shore and Woodlawn (southeast and southwest of Hyde Park) have IMHO a higher likelihood of recovery than do Oakland and Bronzeville.

Also unlikely to improve is Englewood, which is a large area west of Hyde Park. Some of these areas "turned" in the 1940s, some in the 1950s: they have been truly poor for 50+ years.

As I mentioned in another thread, there are going to be low-income neighborhoods in the city of Chicago for a LONG time. No one should expect every single square inch of this city to gentrify in our lifetimes, and that's only because Chicago is so big and takes up so much land, 227 square miles to be exact. There will be space for poor people to live in this city, bet that.


With that being said, I think that the area between 35th and 47th has hope, I really do. The areas further south, and west of the Dan Ryan (basically Englewood) are areas that I would say are much further from gentrification. Much further. Like, I don't see it in the foreseeable future. Not saying it will NEVER happen, just saying that there are no indicators there right now that the gentrification process has even begun to take place.


When I go down major arteries in the Englewood area such as South Halsted, South Ashland, 55th Street, 63rd Street, etc. I still see prostitutes walking the street, I still seeing open drug deals taking place, and the only real commerical development along these corridors is in the form of check cashing places, gun/pawn shops, and storefront churches. The storefront churches are especially prevalent along South Ashland.


Englewood is more reminscent of the neighborhoods I grew up in back in Birmingham in the 1980s and 1990s, dilapidated and depressed. It's sad, and I'd love to see some positive things take place in that community, but as of now, I don't see it. And I go by there maybe once a month or once every two months (I live in Hyde Park and if I fly out of Midway, I come down 55th).


_

[ChicagoJerry]

I'm late to this thread but I thought I'd contribute. I actually work for a developer that has built much of the new construction on Drexel in Kenwood and Oakland so I am biased I guess. My wife and I also live on Drexel at 45th and I can testify that the area certainly is safe during daylight hours. I came from Wicker Park where I had my car broken into three times in 3 years. From Drexel Blvd to the East is very quiet and seemingly very safe. I've checked crime stats regularly and it seems like most violent crimes are domestic and not any higher than where I came from in Wicker Park. My wife has walked the neighborhood every morning for two years and has never had any problems. The worst we've gotten is bums asking for change but I see more of that on the North side. Pioneers might consider Cottage Grove but it's much rougher even though it's just a block west. One of the reason's that Drexel and East of Drexel is so great is that the streets dead end only a few blocks North. That means there is not much through traffic. We feel very good about the area and our property values have gone up even in this slow housing market. I think N. Kenwood and Oakland are two of the best kept secret neighborhoods in Chicago. If you are considering a move then I would definately recommend this area...even if you don't buy a home from my company . The return on investment is likely to be much greater than North side areas and you can buy a LOT of house for much less than the North side stuff is going for.

[Avengerfire]

Damn this thread is OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLDDDD DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD. hahaha

[Manigault]

Jerry (if I may call you that); where do you do groceries from Oakland? The Jewel at 12th and Wabash? It seems that the large, local stores are closing.

[skyeINIL]

Originally Posted by Manigault

Jerry (if I may call you that); where do you do groceries from Oakland? The Jewel at 12th and Wabash? It seems that the large, local stores are closing.

I just read this morning that Treasure Island will be opening where the now-closed Co-op is.

[westender]

I think North Kenwood will gentrify, but it will take time. I'm less positive about Oakland. I think South Shore is an easy call -- it's a great location. Woodlawn, at least the parts closest to South Shore will take some time, but I think it will also improve, especially the further east from Cottage Grove.

I doubt Englewood will be nice in the next 30 years.

[ChicagoJerry]

Originally Posted by Manigault

Jerry (if I may call you that); where do you do groceries from Oakland? The Jewel at 12th and Wabash? It seems that the large, local stores are closing.

I either go to the Jewel on King Dr. and 34th or the Coop in Hyde Park (soon to be Treasure Island) or I hit the downtown Jewel on my way home from work. The Roosevelt Dominicks is not that far either.

One of the criticism's of the neighborhood is the lack of stores but I dont' think it's too much trouble to drive 10 mins. and the lack of stores means lack of trash, congestion, bad elements, etc. If you don't have a car then it could be a pain.

[BetweentheBuriedandMe]

I don't know a lot a about the area, but I would have to say not yet. It's been in the process of redevelopment for several years now, and is better, but still has a long way to go before it can be considred safe. Neighboring Hyde Park is a very nice (and expensive) community, and I still don't feel entirely safe walking around there. They really seem to have more then their share of violent crime, because it is surrounded by some extremely rough neighborhoods, including Oakland/Kenwood to the north and South Shore to the south. South Shore is also starting to improve, but again, it's still got a long way to go. Now, if you can wait a few years, the focus of the Olympics will be south of the loop. I can only imagine what that's going to do for neighborhoods that are slowly gentrifing, often painfully slowly, on the south side, like Oakland/Kenwood, Bronzeville, South Shore and others. It's going to be an incredible thing for the city when, yes I say when, we get the Olympics!

This comment is pretty much par for the course on internet opinions of the south side. If you are african american, you should have absolutely no problems in Kenwood, Oakland, Hyde Park, Bronzeville. If you are any other race, you will still probably have no problems as long as you practice smart city living practices (e.g. not wandering around alone after 11 PM on foot - yes you might get mugged doing something like that)

As a skinny white boy living in bronzeville, don't listen to a nyone that's afraid to go to hyde park. Hyde park is safer than lakeview or pretty much any place on the North side. Yeah it is "pioneery" in grand boulevard, bronzeville, etc. but only if you have some subconcious racism sneaking up on you. Crime here is not like it is in englewood, washington park, south shore, austin, garfield park, or any neighbhorhood that is actually dangerous. This is a community mostly filled with families and a lot of misleading statistics due to the RBT homes that got demolished a few years ago.

Like seriously? You don't feel comfortable in Hyde Park? You've gotta be joking... and woodlawn is to the south of hyde park not south shore.

Internet posting is the new race steering of the 21st century.

[hpnewbie]

I'm hoping to revive this thread to get some insight into an "almost Kenwood" neighborhood? Due to limited finances, job and school location, etc. etc. we are considering renting (or maybe buying into?) a place at 50th and Champlaign (one block west of Cottage Grove). I've pored over this board, and can't find any info. Trying to practice my due diligence, it seems like the area is very quiet, but still close enough to drive down to HP for restaurants if we choose to.
Husband and I have been to Hyde Park and some parts of Kenwood for our job interviews, but this neighborhood (50th/Champlaign) is a complete mystery to us except that the price is right and the location could possibly be a good mix for us (as far as proximity to workplace, diversity, etc. etc.). I'm worried, though, that the lack of mention of this area means the neighborhood is quiet because it's a wasteland...? Thanks, everyone.

[chet everett]

I don't know that "quiet" and "wasteland" always go together. Certainly the lack of commercial development in the section you are considering is something that contributes to the 'quiet', but not in a bad way. I would probably NOT want to directly across from Washington Park, not so much for safety, but as when it does get busy folks that drove there tend to look for parking whenever they can get it, and that is annoying.

Long term the lack of the Olympics probably means the folks that bought for speculative purposes might be rethinking things, but as I suspect that the employment base at the University and the Hospitals will appreciate the pretty much "walk to work" nature that should help set a floor price.

If you are serious about making this a long term home I would dive into the crime data at everyblock.com as well as looking into the various CPD and neighborhood watch programs -- my gut says the safety factor is no where as bad as other parts of the City, but shifts in ownership and renters can have quick impact that you really need to factor in -- if the local beat cops know you are there for the long haul they will be a lot more likely to take your complaints seriously as opposed to a scared renter that is calling every time some kid looks at em cross-eyed.