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Old 03-31-2009, 10:12 PM
 
Location: Chicago
4,676 posts, read 9,281,362 times
Reputation: 3140

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Quote:
Originally Posted by magellan View Post
TIFs don't deplete taxes from the general fund. They divert additional tax dollars from development added into the TIF zone (ie a $30 Million investment on a $5 Million vacant lot would pay taxes into the TIF on the $25 Million improvement). That's a pretty rough example, but you get the picture. The general fund can't lose anything that it never had.

These are some pretty ambitious plans. Nice!
Maybe in Grand Rapids. Not in Chicago.

See this.
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Old 03-31-2009, 10:20 PM
 
2,315 posts, read 6,088,196 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdiddy View Post
Maybe in Grand Rapids. Not in Chicago.

See this.
Yea, Ben Jorvasky has written about this issue ad-naseum for the past several years. Pick any one of these dozens of articles at random. The whole thing (as its currently being used, or more appropriately abused) is a scam that is going to come crashing down sooner or later.

The fact of the matter is, if you stopped an average person on the street tomorrow, I seriously doubt they could even tell you what a TIF is. Ignorance is bliss...
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Old 03-31-2009, 10:48 PM
 
Location: Chicago
4,676 posts, read 9,281,362 times
Reputation: 3140
Quote:
Originally Posted by via chicago View Post
Yea, Ben Jorvasky has written about this issue ad-naseum for the past several years. Pick any one of these dozens of articles at random. The whole thing (as its currently being used, or more appropriately abused) is a scam that is going to come crashing down sooner or later.

The fact of the matter is, if you stopped an average person on the street tomorrow, I seriously doubt they could even tell you what a TIF is. Ignorance is bliss...
The ignorance is aided by the fact that of all the news outlets in Chicago, only the local alt weekly has bothered devoting significant time and effort in understanding and explaining how TIFS are operated.
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Old 03-31-2009, 10:53 PM
 
2,315 posts, read 6,088,196 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdiddy View Post
The ignorance is aided by the fact that of all the news outlets in Chicago, only the local alt weekly has bothered devoting significant time and effort in understanding and explaining how TIFS are operated.
Indeed. For the life of me I cant figure out why the major outlets have not dedicated more attention to this. I guess its not as sexy as mob trials or The Olympics...
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Old 04-01-2009, 07:35 AM
 
Location: Grand Rapids Metro
8,885 posts, read 18,179,245 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdiddy View Post
Maybe in Grand Rapids. Not in Chicago.

See this.
Thanks. I read it, and this is what the author says:

OK, one more time—let’s review how this sucker works. When the City Council approves a TIF—always with Mayor Daley’s blessing—it freezes the amount of property tax dollars the schools, the parks, the county, and other taxing bodies get from that district for 23 years. If the schools were getting $100 from a TIF district when it was created, that’s roughly all they’ll get until the TIF expires. Any extra tax money, generated by rising assessments or new development, goes into the TIF fund, which Mayor Daley is free to use largely as he wants.

So TIFs don't take money from the general fund. Some might say that capping the tax rate is the same as "taking", but does the city naturally charge more and more for taxes every year, or do they gain efficiencies and work to bring costs down or keep them in line?

In addition, Chicago has an income tax rate if I'm not mistaken. So if a development in a TIF zone brought in more workers or residents, I would think that the increased income tax would make up for the capped property tax. No?

From my experience, TIFs in a lot of different cities share the same structure. In fact, they are encouraged heavily by the FTA for transit expansions.
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Old 04-01-2009, 09:55 AM
 
Location: Chicago
15,587 posts, read 24,526,848 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magellan View Post
...In addition, Chicago has an income tax rate if I'm not mistaken. So if a development in a TIF zone brought in more workers or residents, I would think that the increased income tax would make up for the capped property tax. No?...
Nope. Chicago has no city income tax.
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Old 04-01-2009, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Chicago
4,676 posts, read 9,281,362 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magellan View Post
Thanks. I read it, and this is what the author says:

OK, one more time—let’s review how this sucker works. When the City Council approves a TIF—always with Mayor Daley’s blessing—it freezes the amount of property tax dollars the schools, the parks, the county, and other taxing bodies get from that district for 23 years. If the schools were getting $100 from a TIF district when it was created, that’s roughly all they’ll get until the TIF expires. Any extra tax money, generated by rising assessments or new development, goes into the TIF fund, which Mayor Daley is free to use largely as he wants.

So TIFs don't take money from the general fund. Some might say that capping the tax rate is the same as "taking", but does the city naturally charge more and more for taxes every year, or do they gain efficiencies and work to bring costs down or keep them in line?

In addition, Chicago has an income tax rate if I'm not mistaken. So if a development in a TIF zone brought in more workers or residents, I would think that the increased income tax would make up for the capped property tax. No?

From my experience, TIFs in a lot of different cities share the same structure. In fact, they are encouraged heavily by the FTA for transit expansions.

Come on, now. What was a dollar worth 23 years ago?
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Old 04-01-2009, 11:03 AM
 
Location: Tower Grove East, St. Louis, MO
12,063 posts, read 29,100,441 times
Reputation: 3775
Glad to see you all are talking about that angle -- as soon as I read the article TIFs were all I could think of -- I love love love these plans to be sure (I suspect we all do) but TIFs for loop projects? Is that really the idea behind TIFs? Daley abuses the crap out of them.
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Old 04-01-2009, 11:09 AM
 
11,288 posts, read 23,652,538 times
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These are just ideas and visions. Many of those items have been "out there" for years and years now. It's nothing new, and they're no closer to executing them than they were 10 years ago.

It'd be awesome to get some of these finished for the 600,000 people who travel downtown every day.

I think some people tend to forget what the city's massive cash cow is.....The Loop. Downtown subsidizes the city to a great deal as far as tourist money, property taxes, sales taxes, fees, etc. I'm not saying I don't want things for the neighborhoods, I do, but you can't really discredit what the downtown area gives back to the residents who might never go down there.
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Old 04-01-2009, 11:31 AM
 
Location: Chicago
4,676 posts, read 9,281,362 times
Reputation: 3140
Quote:
Originally Posted by aragx6 View Post
Glad to see you all are talking about that angle -- as soon as I read the article TIFs were all I could think of -- I love love love these plans to be sure (I suspect we all do) but TIFs for loop projects? Is that really the idea behind TIFs? Daley abuses the crap out of them.
Well, if this were solely based on TIFs from these areas, this is how they should be spent - as opposed to renovating a recently renovated building to make it just right for Miller Coors to move into a building in highest occupied section of the loop.

If anyone made it through to the end of that run-on sentence, congratulations.
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