Which fans are bigger a-holes? (Chicago: neighborhood, living, ticket)

[Venom]

I'm not a rich white frat boy and I've been to Cubs game like a dozen times.

[Avengerfire]

Originally Posted by Lookout Kid

...I guess there are often more women at Cubs games... But it's not a huge difference.

Yeah but the Wrigley has a much higher amount of ATTRACTIVE women than Comiskey even if the women to men ratio was even.

[Orangeish]

Originally Posted by Lookout Kid

But there was a study recently that showed Sox and Cubs fans had about the same levels of income, education, and other class signifiers. Apparently it's sort of a myth that Sox fans are more working class.

Sounds interesting, link?

I found this one

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1N1-10DED30D393D61A0.html

[jdiddy]

Originally Posted by Drover

It may have increasingly got on your nerves over the past few years, but I have found it increasingly true over the last few years. You can hardly talk about the Cubs on an online forum without a bunch of Sox fans wandering to belch about how Wrigley Field is the biggest gay bar in Boys Town or how Wrigley Field is a dump that smells like pee or whatever.

Two cases in point:

Last year, the Trib asked the quintessential fan for each team -- Ron Santo for the Cubs and Steve Dahl of for the Sox -- to write an article about why they love their team. Santo's article was a loving ode to everything Cubs and everything Wrigley Field. Steve Dahl's article was an ode to... how the Cubs suck and Wrigley Field is a dump, and oh yeah, the Sox are a cool team with a deep-rooted history and all that.

Also last year, I went to a local bar to watch a couple of Cubs playoff games, mostly because I don't have cable. Both times I went, there were Sox fans wearing Sox hats and jerseys loudly and conspicuously cheering for the Dodgers. And one of them was the bar owner, antagonizing his own freaking patrons. And this wasn't a bar in Canaryville. This was a bar due west of Wrigley Field. I used to be a regular, and haven't been back since.

That's the kind of crap Cubs fans have increasingly put up with for the last couple of years, and last year it was absolutely intolerable. I never hated the Sox -- or more accurately, their fans -- until last year. Never had any reason to before then. But last year they were the most obnoxious, Cub-hating retards that did absolutely everything to live up to the "We hate the Cubs more than we like the Sox" stereotype imaginable. There were many Cub fans that begrudgingly supported the "other home team" in 2005. I was one of them. I promise that won't happen again any time soon.

If I had that experience, I'd probably feel the way you do. I'll grant you more sox fans enjoy Cubs losses than vice versa, and that it can be obnoxious. But it's gotten to the point that making any statement about the Cubs invites some dipsh*t (or in Venom's case, not about the Cubs at all) to say "Sox fans care more about the Cubs than they do about their own team".

It's typically insecurity, because the guy who will usually say that knows less about his team's relievers than I do, but what can I do.

Here's to Rich Harden staying healthy.

[Lookout Kid]

Originally Posted by Orangeish

Sounds interesting, link?

I found this one

Cubs, Sox fans more alike than different, survey says | Article from Post-Tribune (IN) | HighBeam Research

It was in the Trib--maybe three or so years ago? I do remember very clearly that it was the Trib. To get a link you'd have to subscribe to the archives.

[SAI126]

I'm a baby boomer. From 1951-67 the Sox had 17 consecutive winning seasons, the third longest in MLB history. In that time period the Cubs were for the most part as the British would say, bloody awful. Chicago was decidedly a Sox town. Legendary sports writers like John Carmichael and Bill Gleason, among others made sure the Sox got the lions share of the press. This was long before ESPN and Sports Talk radio and the print media still reigned supreme. That all changed quickly in 1967. The hitless wonder Sox blew a pennant and the Cubs began a mini resurgence under fiery manager Leo Durocher. By 1969 the Sox were playing some of their home games in Milwaukee, and the Cubs were making their ill fated run for the pennant. Famed Chicago DJ Larry Lujack couldn't speak a complete sentence on the air without referring to the "Addison Street Miracle." The press had suddenly jilted the Sox and one sportswriter in particular, Rick Talley, openly mocked them. It's been pretty much a Cubs town since then. Hence the chip on the shoulder that many Sox fans do carry.

Regarding the Cubs and their fans, and yeah I'll probably get slammed again. WGN and the Tribune company have done a bang up job of making the Cubs the more popular team in Chicago, and one of the most popular teams anywhere else for that matter. It has come with a price. The whole Wrigley Field frat party experience has become more important than winning baseball. Believe me I know that there are many die hard Cub fans out there that know their baseball, but the truth is the Cubs are attracting a fan base that includes many party goers that just want to do the whole Wrigley thing. As a result, and I'm not making this up, Cub fans now as a group have one of the worst reputations in major league baseball. When Cincinnati broadcaster Marty Brenneman made his famous rant last season, he spoke for a lot of baseball fans everywhere.

All of this rivalry and contentiousness doesn't change the fact that it's hard to match the combined futility of Chicago's two baseball teams. Again, I remember when this rivalry was a whole lot more fun than it is today. I've had many great experiences with Cub fans and attending games at their hallowed old ball park. An old Cub fan, gone for many years gave me some of my most prized sports memorabilia. We used to spend hours at an old bar that used to be in the basement of a non descript old building just north of the Loop. He would regale me with stories about Hack Wilson and the Cub teams of the 20s and 30s. A great guy. I miss him a lot and the friendship we had while rooting for different teams in a great American city.

[css9450]

Originally Posted by Drover

Last year, the Trib asked the quintessential fan for each team -- Ron Santo for the Cubs and Steve Dahl of for the Sox -- to write an article about why they love their team. Santo's article was a loving ode to everything Cubs and everything Wrigley Field. Steve Dahl's article was an ode to... how the Cubs suck and Wrigley Field is a dump, and oh yeah, the Sox are a cool team with a deep-rooted history and all that.

I remember the article well. Steve Dahl struck me as an odd choice; there were probably better choices they could have picked. Sure, he had season tickets for a few years (1990-1995 or so, then 2006-2008? or 2009), but he'd completely draw a blank if asked about the "other" years. I remember the interview he gave on the occasion of the last game at the old park in 1990; the interviewer asked him who were his favorite guys on the team, and the only name he could come up with was Carlton Fisk. Couldn't name any others - no Jack McDowell, no Robin Ventura, no Ivan Calderon, no Greg Hibbard, no Frank Thomas, etc.

As much as I love Steve, I don't cut him any slack here. I doubt he went to any games during those "other" years. Now he's a Blackhawks fan, but probably because his kid works for them. I don't recall him ever talking about the Blackhawks in the past. He's on their bandwagon now. And he's been on the Cubs bandwagon from time to time too.

Also last year, I went to a local bar to watch a couple of Cubs playoff games, mostly because I don't have cable. Both times I went, there were Sox fans wearing Sox hats and jerseys loudly and conspicuously cheering for the Dodgers.

Reminds me of the several groups of Cub fans loudly and conspicuously cheering for the Astros in the 2005 World Series, that I saw on the one night I chose to watch from a bar. A few of them spent the money for brand new Astros caps but the rest just wore their Cubs stuff. Fortunately, I watched the rest of the post season from the comfort of my living room, and didn't see those guys again.

That's the kind of crap Cubs fans have increasingly put up with for the last couple of years, and last year it was absolutely intolerable. I never hated the Sox -- or more accurately, their fans -- until last year.

You've singled out last year in particular? What about it was different? Could it have been how the media had the Cubs pencilled in as the 2008 Champions ever since Spring Training? You know, "Its Gonna Happen!" and "This Is The Year!". I guess when it doesn't happen, the faithful are more sensitive that they would be otherwise. Personally, I didn't notice anything different from Sox fans

But last year they were the most obnoxious, Cub-hating retards that did absolutely everything to live up to the "We hate the Cubs more than we like the Sox" stereotype imaginable.

I don't actually know any Sox fans who spend more than about two seconds per day thinking about the Cubs. I know I don't, and neither do my friends. Maybe its a teenager/20-something thing. I'm 44 and don't care either way about the Cubs, other than the time it took to type this post. By the way, among Sox fans, its considered uncool to fret over what the Cubs do. The Cubs simply don't matter. Maybe the media looks for controversy and interviews the loudest, most boorish fans from either side and puts them on TV.

There were many Cub fans that begrudgingly supported the "other home team" in 2005.

Sort of like our ex-Governor, Rod Blagojevich, who went to the World Series and pointedly told the TV cameras he was there not as a Sox fan, but as a dad who just wanted to make sure his daughter got to experience a World Series in her hometown? Way to play to both sides there, Governor; at least our mayor makes a little more effort than that.

None of the Cub fans I know supported the Sox in 2005. Or in 2008, 2000, 1993, 1983, etc.

[SJaye]

I think this rivalry is kind of being enhanced by a positive feedback loop right now. A Cubs fan will encounter a Sox fan cheering against the Cubs---> this makes him want to cheer against the Sox. He goes somewhere and cheers against the Sox ----> this makes some other Sox fan want to cheer against the Cubs. They go out and do it and start the cycle again.

I do resent the class-warfare rhetoric from some Sox fans. If there is one thing I do not want to deal with at a baseball game, it is people spewing out rhetoric that is based on Marxism, group think mentality that squashes one's ability to view one another as individuals rather than faceless associates of some loosely defined group, and the concept of needing to bring someone else down to make you feel better about yourself (the same idea behind those magazines showing clebrities- Caught without their makeup- OH MY!), all destructive to our society and ourselves.

I also know there are White Sox fans who have even made up pardoy songs making fun of Cubs fans. So, I find it hard to believe that no Sox fans ever think about the Cubs. But, once again, I think we are just judging each other based on bad apples. I also do admit there are some Cubs fans that drink quite a bit, and just follow the bandwagon. I am willing to engage any Sox fan without pre-judging, as long as they don't pre judge me. We will always have our love for the sport of baseball in common, and I think the rivalry can still be fun as long as the right people are gathered together.

[Irishtom29]

Originally Posted by SJaye

I do resent the class-warfare rhetoric from some Sox fans. If there is one thing I do not want to deal with at a baseball game, it is people spewing out rhetoric that is based on Marxism, group think mentality that squashes one's ability to view one another as individuals rather than faceless associates of some loosely defined group, and the concept of needing to bring someone else down to make you feel better about yourself (the same idea behind those magazines showing clebrities- Caught without their makeup- OH MY!), all destructive to our society and ourselves.

.

Resent it all you want, class struggle is going on; always has and always will.

You seem to parrot the conservative line: When the businessmen cut wages and reduce workers' standard of living it's "good business" and the "global economy" but when the workers resent it it's "class warfare". And that resentment is then called "envy" and made out to be a greater sin than greed.

Sometimes people are righteously pissed off, no psychoanalysis needed.

[Fishtacos]

All teams have good and bad fans.