Firearm registration cards in Chicago? (Harvey, Winnetka: living, law, versus)

[Lilybeans]

Originally Posted by Lookout Kid

It's clear that there are ignorant, uninformed, mindless, dumb, flightly, illogical people on both sides of this argument, and you very well may be one of them. And of course, many people who support stronger gun control are intelligent, informed, and quite logical in their beliefs. It all has to do with your opinions on the role of government, and it's possible to recognize these dfferent beliefs without sinking to your "call the other guy stupid" approach.

I've found that most people that want gun control have some sort of primal fear that a gun will go off by itself. They simply have no experience with firearms and fear them because the media says they are evil.

[dementor]

Originally Posted by Lookout Kid

In the end, I personally don't think gun control matters. I firmly believe that gun control doesn't work, and that conceal carry also doesn't work (as far as detering crime is concerned). I personally would like the right to own any sort of non-military weapon in Chicago, but I really believe it is a non-issue. And I'm deeply skeptical of people who try to make this a major issue. Most are right wing gun nuts or ultra liberal losers.

We do not know that as we still have gun control. One thought, look at the people walking next to you, would you trust them with a handgun?
What about drunks at bars? Would you hand them guns? What about thousands of people with diagnosed and undiagnosed mental problems. Would you require a psychological evaluation /doctor's note before a sale of a handgun?

Looking at the way people behave nowadays I don't think I would trust most of them with weapons. There is enough trouble already. People bringing up second amendment forget that the times have changed since it was written. Banning guns, especially in densely populated inner cities makes perfect sense.

[Lookout Kid]

Originally Posted by Lilybeans

I've found that most people that want gun control have some sort of primal fear that a gun will go off by itself. They simply have no experience with firearms and fear them because the media says they are evil.

Possibly. I think that there are gun control proponents of all stripes, however. But yeah, people that have no experience with guns do have irrational fears about them. And many of our gun control laws reflect this lack of knowlege, like the "assault weapons" ban or Chicago's silly laws about transport that were pointed out in this thread.

[Lookout Kid]

Originally Posted by dementor

We do not know that as we still have gun control. One thought, look at the people walking next to you, would you trust them with a handgun?
What about drunks at bars? Would you hand them guns? What about thousands of people with diagnosed and undiagnosed mental problems. Would you require a psychological evaluation /doctor's note before a sale of a handgun?

Looking at the way people behave nowadays I don't think I would trust most of them with weapons. There is enough trouble already. People bringing up second amendment forget that the times have changed since it was written. Banning guns, especially in densely populated inner cities makes perfect sense.

Gun control laws will only work if the supply of guns is actually restricted--like in Western Europe. That was my point. The current laws don't work here because guns are still very easy to get a hold of--and anyone wanting one for nefarious purposes doesn't have to look far. There are so many existing guns floating around the U.S. that the black market would be HUGE for decades even if we stopped manufacturing them today.

I once worked with a guy who was arrested for trafficking stolen guns from rural Wisconsin towns to Chicago. He worked with "gangs" in small towns who would break in to homes and clean out the gun cabinets. My ex co-worker was arrested on I-94 with a trunk full of these weapons. So, no matter what the law is in Chicago the supply was still flowing in for the black market. And in these conditions, the criminals are the only ones who are armed.

[Venom]

I want a gun!

[Manigault]

Originally Posted by Lilybeans

do you feel like you would shoot someone if you had a gun near you?

No, but cars get broken into. Why carry a gun in a car if you don't intend to use it? Leave it at home.

Having the gun near me wouldn't make me shoot it (I go to the range, too.) but why would I have it near but for the thought of shooting it?

Don't turn road rage into a fatal incident.

[dementor]

Originally Posted by Lookout Kid

Gun control laws will only work if the supply of guns is actually restricted--like in Western Europe. That was my point. The current laws don't work here because guns are still very easy to get a hold of--and anyone wanting one for nefarious purposes doesn't have to look far. There are so many existing guns floating around the U.S. that the black market would be HUGE for decades even if we stopped manufacturing them today.

That's an old trick: make a half-assed effort and they decry that the solution does not work. People that I worked with do it all the time...

Originally Posted by Lookout Kid

I once worked with a guy who was arrested for trafficking stolen guns from rural Wisconsin towns to Chicago. He worked with "gangs" in small towns who would break in to homes and clean out the gun cabinets. My ex co-worker was arrested on I-94 with a trunk full of these weapons. So, no matter what the law is in Chicago the supply was still flowing in for the black market. And in these conditions, the criminals are the only ones who are armed.

Exactly. And if the guns were more popular it would be even easier to steal them from houses, cars etc etc. I would ban guns in big cities altogether. I do not trust people enough to give them deadly weapons, cars should be enough.

[Lilybeans]

Originally Posted by Manigault

No, but cars get broken into. Why carry a gun in a car if you don't intend to use it? Leave it at home.

Having the gun near me wouldn't make me shoot it (I go to the range, too.) but why would I have it near but for the thought of shooting it?

Don't turn road rage into a fatal incident.

If you don't intend to use one, don't carry one. If you want one to protect yourself, then you should carry it.

I don't plan to shoot anyone, but I wouldn't be a victim of violence either.

[PokerPlayer1]

Originally Posted by Lookout Kid

More than anything else you've said, this proves without a doubt that you are a fanatical nutjob with no moorings in reality. If you truly do have all of this literature (which sounds like a huge load of bull**** to me, but let's go with it for now), you really really really need to get help. Pshychiatric help. And please don't shoot up your school or workplace.

PLEASE! GET HELP! OWNING THOSE BOOKS MAKES YOU A NUTJOB! DON'T SHOOT UP A SCHOOL!!!!111one!111 ZOMG!
Really, again, with the internet BBS tactics. LOL.

Now, since you have said yourself that you have been a "professional" poker player in the past, I'm calling your bluff. You are completely full of ****, and no matter what you say I will not believe that you are the worlds most eminent gun control expert (which is what you claimed here).

Well, "worlds most eminent gun control expert" would definitely be a bit of a stretch, but I'm certain that I own more books literature on the issue any random college professor (or college, for that matter. It isn't like "gun control" is a default topic in any university library I've ever been in) on the topic and have probably examined the issue closer than 99.99999% of the population. I guess I'm a bit OCD like that and ebay has been a huge source of esoteric material. And LOL at you being completely floored- to the point of calling BULL****!- by someone playing poker for a living. Shows how little you know about that, too. It's actually a helluva lot more common than you think. If you want to see thousands of people who do it (including 18 year old kids making in the mid six figures a year without leaving their houses), I'd suggest going here- and if you seriously want to bet that I'm lying, I'll be glad to cover as much action as you want to give, but for some reason, I don't think you'll be stepping up to put your money where your mouth is. This is a hometown forum, after all. We aren't exactly dealing with some guy from Omaha calling one in Portland a liar, knowing that the logistics of it all would make "proving it" impossible.

[PokerPlayer1]

Originally Posted by dementor

That's an old trick: make a half-assed effort and they decry that the solution does not work. People that I worked with do it all the time...

Yeah, because he's really wrong about that.
The fact that we live in a country with as many guns as people- virtually all of them unregistered and unaccounted for (common myth- all guns aren't "registered" with some central authority, save for a handful of places like Chicago and then, ineffectively so) compared to a civilization where citizen gun ownership has been historically insignificant and when it occurs, is tightly accounted for- what... that's comparatively irrelevant?

I mean, Europe seems to be the rally-cry of anti-gunners, though they fail to acknowledge the fundamental (and historical) operating differences between their civilization and ours when it comes to citizen firearms ownership... Like, as if passing some law would act as a giant magnet, swooping up hundreds of millions of firearms as if by magic, when the details of the situation suggest that the outcome would be totally different.

Worth noting that handgun crime has risen in Britain since they completely banned handguns. Some gun owners get into the 'correlation implies causation' trap and assume that one implies the other, which it doesn't. What it does imply is that the notions of pie-eyed idealists have little impact on reality.

What an odd situation this is... Simultaneously arguing against and on the behalf of someone in the same thread.

Originally Posted by dementor

Exactly. And if the guns were more popular it would be even easier to steal them from houses, cars etc etc. I would ban guns in big cities altogether. I do not trust people enough to give them deadly weapons, cars should be enough.

Ahhh yes, because that has shown itself to be an effective method. Like Chicagos handgun ban, and our complete lack of handgun crime!
Good Job, Chicago! You and Dementor are a real ****ing braintrust