Chicago vs NYC (Bloomington, Orland Park, Paris: mortgage, vacation home, neighborhood)

[surlycue]

It would be an understatement to say that this thread has been completely hijacked. So, OP, you're a teacher, eh?

[Drover]

Originally Posted by jdiddy

Yeah. Assuming you're still in Old Irving, that's where car ownership becomes more of an issue, and the car-sharing companies still lack enough of a presence to make it a viable substitute.

You know, the Irving Park neighborhood is pretty well-served by public transit considering its relative distance from the dense lakeshore or inner-ring neighborhoods. The Blue Line on the western edge of the neighborhood, the Brown Line close to the northeastern edge, two Metra lines along the west edge, plenty of bus lines... we could get by even in Old Irving without a car if both of us conducted most of our business here in the city. But many of the headaches of car ownership just areb't an issue out here. Many local businesses have parking, those that don't have wide-open street parking out front (some metered, some not), on-street parking on many side streets is a breeze (we have an off-street spot as part of our rent, but even if we didn't we could still use a tour bus as our daily driver and have room to park it), and congestion is only a problem during rush hour, and typically only in one direction.

So while non-car living is doable even out here, there's just no reason for it unless you just can't afford it. As for saving money by not having a car, I decided to take a different route: live in a cheap neighborhood so I could use the savings to have a car or two. Or three, for a while. But now we're back down to two. And when the day comes that neither of us have any reason to be out in the suburbs all the time, we'll probably go back down to one.

[jdiddy]

Originally Posted by Drover

You know, the Irving Park neighborhood is pretty well-served by public transit considering its relative distance from the dense lakeshore or inner-ring neighborhoods. The Blue Line on the western edge of the neighborhood, the Brown Line close to the northeastern edge, two Metra lines along the west edge, plenty of bus lines... we could get by even in Old Irving without a car if both of us conducted most of our business here in the city. But many of the headaches of car ownership just areb't an issue out here. Many local businesses have parking, those that don't have wide-open street parking out front (some metered, some not), on-street parking on many side streets is a breeze (we have an off-street spot as part of our rent, but even if we didn't we could still use a tour bus as our daily driver and have room to park it), and congestion is only a problem during rush hour, and typically only in one direction.

So while non-car living is doable even out here, there's just no reason for it unless you just can't afford it. As for saving money by not having a car, I decided to take a different route: live in a cheap neighborhood so I could use the savings to have a car or two. Or three, for a while. But now we're back down to two. And when the day comes that neither of us have any reason to be out in the suburbs all the time, we'll probably go back down to one.

True, it's well-served by transit, but it doesn't really correlate to walkability. Irving has a number of auto dealerships along that route. Pulaski is mainly residential w/the exception of the immediate areas along major intersections. Cicero is mainly auto dealership/auto service.

Combine that with the ease of parking for most routine trips, the lack of a car makes living in that neighborhood more restrictive than the other areas mentioned.

[Drover]

By the time you hit Cicero and the car dealerships, you're not in Irving Park any more. I find plenty of things to walk to around here: a couple of decent Mexican joints (both sit-down and the burrito-shack variety), a Morrocan restaurant, a handful of mom-and-pop liquor stores and convenience stores, a Latin sandwich joint, a Las Tablas outpost, a forthcomng El Llano outpost, a Jewel, a Tony's, barber shops/salons, a Leona's, a breakfast/pancake joint, a couple diners, a number of Thai places, a sushi place, Susie's and other greasy-spoons, a number of neighborhood bars, an Afghan restaurant, a Middle Eastern deli/bakery, a German bar/restaurant, a Romanian restaurant, Prop Theatre, Chief O'Neil's, a nice green patch in Independence Park, etc. And of course, Smoque BBQ. And if I really want to stretch my legs, I'm within walking distance of Kuma's Corner -- it's certainly an easy bikeride. It's no Lincoln Square, but I don't exactly lack for walkable options around here.

[Venom]

Double post.

[Drover]

Oh, almost forgot, can walk to a show at Abbey Pub.

[jdiddy]

Originally Posted by Drover

By the time you hit Cicero and the car dealerships, you're not in Irving Park any more. I find plenty of things to walk to around here: a couple of decent Mexican joints (both sit-down and the burrito-shack variety), a Morrocan restaurant, a handful of mom-and-pop liquor stores and convenience stores, a Latin sandwich joint, a Las Tablas outpost, a forthcomng El Llano outpost, a Jewel, a Tony's, barber shops/salons, a Leona's, a breakfast/pancake joint, a couple diners, a number of Thai places, a sushi place, Susie's and other greasy-spoons, a number of neighborhood bars, an Afghan restaurant, a Middle Eastern deli/bakery, a German bar/restaurant, a Romanian restaurant, Prop Theatre, Chief O'Neil's, a nice green patch in Independence Park, etc. And of course, Smoque BBQ. And if I really want to stretch my legs, I'm within walking distance of Kuma's Corner -- it's certainly an easy bikeride. It's no Lincoln Square, but I don't exactly lack for walkable options around here.

Fair enough. But much like Western Ave between, say the Kennedy and North Ave, has a number of restaurants/corner stores/small grocery stores, that are within walking distance if you live in that area, the design and aesthetic of the area isn't as conducive to doing so. Same feeling with Old Irving to me. And that's not to say anything negative about the neighborhood - just that if I were to live there, I'd prefer having a car.

[ABiologyTeacher]

Originally Posted by jdiddy

Clearly, a car-free lifestyle would dictate that you don't really need or care to spend time in a far out suburb like Orland Park. Since the OP mentioned NYC had a freeze on hiring teachers, the obvious assumption is he's looking to teach in the city, thus making your comments that cars are necessary in the suburbs irrelevant.

I'm female and my best friend is from Orland Park. She has a car. In fact, I know people from probably 6 different suburban towns. I do want to avoid the suburb life. It doesn't thrill me. I can save that for when I have kids.

[ABiologyTeacher]

Originally Posted by Gioobag

Every single immigrant to Chicago wants a car. Most of them have them, they get them as soon as possible. Go rip on their decision if you want to make fun of car-drivers.

"Midwestern thinking", you reveal much about your arrogance trying to turn that into a pejorative term. What kind of "thinking" describes you? Can't wait!

All I am saying is that I think someone who moves here from Bloomington, IL would be much happier with a car, and the vast majority of Chicagoans own cars. If someone makes 6 figures in the Loop and doesn't own a car, that is unusual, not the norm, and imho, weird.

I hate driving. If it wasn't vital for rural IL, I wouldn't want a license. However, I do have one and I have a car. I would rather not have to use it.

[ABiologyTeacher]

Originally Posted by surlycue

It would be an understatement to say that this thread has been completely hijacked. So, OP, you're a teacher, eh?

It's okay. I appreciate the debate. I have always assumed that Chicago was a car city. It's nice to know that there are a few options if I choose to move there. I still have to student teach so my username is a little misleading. So if I don't get scared off during that experience (doubt it I've known I wanted to teach since I was in grade school), then Chicago seems like a possibility. Car or no car. Since I'm single, do not have children, and many thing can be ordered online...I might just giving carless a shot first. If I can't make it, I can always bring mine up from my parent's house.

Thanks for all the advice. More is greatly welcomed.