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Old 03-08-2011, 12:05 PM
 
98 posts, read 96,518 times
Reputation: 28
Jeez e-mat don't take this personal...but touristy is what Chicago needs...these ''ethnic'' enclaves could be appreciated more but are cut-off from the touristy areas...i mean there is nothing really Greek about Greektown but a row of restaurants and that's cut-off by the highway...as far as light-rail, there was an approved circulator system in the '90s complete with covenants in deeds for purchasers of property to contribute to in the areas served...that tanked. Chicago should develop a Bus-Rapid Transit system to serve Navy Pier-McCormick Place in lieu of light-rail...something quick and efficient. For all the talk about the Loop is dead because of this or that, the city sure is determined to enliven the area for some reason then. Too much residential displacement for commercial development to ever get sustained feeling of livliness.

 
Old 03-08-2011, 12:30 PM
 
98 posts, read 96,518 times
Reputation: 28
E-mat as far as Tribune/Pravda thing...I don't read the Trib anymore but I always got the impression that bad news reporting was limited and that people here never admit anything is really wrong.
 
Old 03-08-2011, 02:01 PM
 
367 posts, read 1,201,249 times
Reputation: 294
Yeah emathias, I've always thought that the fact that Chicago's CBD is packed during the day but dies after hours was a sign that it is a really big city. In smaller US cities, the hippest place to hang out is usually downtown, basically wherever the biggest buildings and most urban location is, or directly adjacent. Champaign, and Bloomington, IL, on up to Charlotte, Seattle to some degree, Portland, OR, and Denver come easily to mind.

Contrast this to NYC, or Boston, or Philadelphia, or LA which have a special-purpose business district. A hyper-urban concrete jungle where people go to work and run the world, then leave at night. Chicago is in this category. I've always been kind of fond of this idea. For those who want a city of neighborhoods, where the demographics and vibe are completely different from one to another, a special purpose concrete jungle CBD contrasts strongly. Making the Chicago Loop look more like Lincoln Park would just mean more blurring of the neighborhoods together.

Anyway, fundamentally, the real estate is very expensive when a company's most economical choice for a site is to put up a 60 story office tower. They are putting out a load of money on real estate and construction and have to be producing a ton of value there per square foot for the money to work. In short, it is a high rent (the highest rent) district. This is fundamentally incompatible with dive bars, vintage shops and pizza slice joints, or whatever it is you (us?) yuppies are looking for.
 
Old 03-08-2011, 02:50 PM
 
98 posts, read 96,518 times
Reputation: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by meatpuff View Post
Yeah emathias, I've always thought that the fact that Chicago's CBD is packed during the day but dies after hours was a sign that it is a really big city. In smaller US cities, the hippest place to hang out is usually downtown, basically wherever the biggest buildings and most urban location is, or directly adjacent. Champaign, and Bloomington, IL, on up to Charlotte, Seattle to some degree, Portland, OR, and Denver come easily to mind.

Contrast this to NYC, or Boston, or Philadelphia, or LA which have a special-purpose business district. A hyper-urban concrete jungle where people go to work and run the world, then leave at night. Chicago is in this category. I've always been kind of fond of this idea. For those who want a city of neighborhoods, where the demographics and vibe are completely different from one to another, a special purpose concrete jungle CBD contrasts strongly. Making the Chicago Loop look more like Lincoln Park would just mean more blurring of the neighborhoods together.

Anyway, fundamentally, the real estate is very expensive when a company's most economical choice for a site is to put up a 60 story office tower. They are putting out a load of money on real estate and construction and have to be producing a ton of value there per square foot for the money to work. In short, it is a high rent (the highest rent) district. This is fundamentally incompatible with dive bars, vintage shops and pizza slice joints, or whatever it is you (us?) yuppies are looking for.
Chicago's commercial development displaced residential options altogether in the Loop as it did in most midwest cities (Detroit, Cleveland). Entertainment options dwindled by the '70s as well. Philadelphia's Center City has ''dead'' areas at night (Market/17th Street etc) but otherwise, Philadelphia's Center City is pretty vibrant.
Chicago needs more blending of its neighborhoods which is why city officials have been trying to turn the Loop into a 24 hour area by promoting residential and retail development.
As far as pizza joints etc. the prices in midtown Manhattan haven't deterred these businesses and comparing downtown Manhattan with Chicago is also misplaced since Manhattan has 2 cbds.
 
Old 03-08-2011, 03:08 PM
 
Location: South South Jersey
1,652 posts, read 3,868,267 times
Reputation: 743
Quote:
Originally Posted by Failte View Post
Chicago's commercial development displaced residential options altogether in the Loop as it did in most midwest cities (Detroit, Cleveland). Entertainment options dwindled by the '70s as well. Philadelphia's Center City has ''dead'' areas at night (Market/17th Street etc) but otherwise, Philadelphia's Center City is pretty vibrant.
Oh, yes, I forgot how vibrant downtown Philly was throughout the 70s- early 00s. How stupid of me! Philly's downtown has a HELL of a lot more work to do than Chicago's towards being 24-hour sort of place. It's so transparent why you inserted that little defense of Philly, though - you slammed on a couple "Midwest cities" for not having vibrant enough city centers (ever notice how so many Chicago-bashing threads read essentially like, "Yeah, dude Detroit, Midwest, Detroit, Newark, Buffalo, Wilmington, Baltimore, Bridgeport, oops, scratch those last five, I meant Cleveland, Midwest"), then realized someone might have thought, "but what about Philly?" (Philly being the physically largest/most glaring exception to the too-stupidly-common 'all Northeast cities are happy shiny lollipop lands' claim), which required a pre-emptive Philly-boosting tidbit.

And don't get me wrong - I actually love Philly (would move there - or even to Baltimore - from DC tomorrow if I could). Failte, are you Ohio248, by any chance?

Last edited by Alicia Bradley; 03-08-2011 at 03:26 PM..
 
Old 03-08-2011, 03:22 PM
 
Location: Chicago
41 posts, read 104,023 times
Reputation: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dncr View Post
First off, this is NOT a thread meant to bash Chicago, so Dementor (as well as other trolls) leave now.

With that said, I've within two miles within, or in, Chicago almost my entire life, and I truly do think its a great city. It has all the amenities someone could ever need, or want. It has a great urban vibe, a better than most public transportation option, and much much more.

Having said that, I cant help but notice that the city is missing something. It almost feels, for lack of a better word, incomplete. Do you think Chicago is missing something, or am I just crazy? I've thought about maybe leaving for a little and living somewhere else after college (3.5 more years to go...at least), but I don't know what my options would be as a High School teacher.

So now we get back to my original question: What do you think Chicago is missing, if anything at all. What could the city do to make it feel more complete?
I sort of liked ole Charlie Swibel's idea of building a huge dome over the entire metro area so we could have warm weather all year.
 
Old 03-08-2011, 05:28 PM
 
98 posts, read 96,518 times
Reputation: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alicia Bradley View Post
Oh, yes, I forgot how vibrant downtown Philly was throughout the 70s- early 00s. How stupid of me! Philly's downtown has a HELL of a lot more work to do than Chicago's towards being 24-hour sort of place. It's so transparent why you inserted that little defense of Philly, though - you slammed on a couple "Midwest cities" for not having vibrant enough city centers (ever notice how so many Chicago-bashing threads read essentially like, "Yeah, dude Detroit, Midwest, Detroit, Newark, Buffalo, Wilmington, Baltimore, Bridgeport, oops, scratch those last five, I meant Cleveland, Midwest"), then realized someone might have thought, "but what about Philly?" (Philly being the physically largest/most glaring exception to the too-stupidly-common 'all Northeast cities are happy shiny lollipop lands' claim), which required a pre-emptive Philly-boosting tidbit.

And don't get me wrong - I actually love Philly (would move there - or even to Baltimore - from DC tomorrow if I could). Failte, are you Ohio248, by any chance?
Hi Alicia...if you followed the posts someone mentioned Boston Philly etc...Center City Philly is much more 24 than Chicago...so I dont' understand your rambling and have no idea who Ohio248 is...your post sounds a bit crazy actually and I don't see how my post is ''transparent'' and preemptive...I'm new to this forum thing and it seems to be full of defensive weirdos...
 
Old 03-08-2011, 07:55 PM
 
Location: South South Jersey
1,652 posts, read 3,868,267 times
Reputation: 743
Quote:
Originally Posted by Failte View Post
...I'm new to this forum thing and it seems to be full of defensive weirdos...
Methinks the gentleman/lady doth protest too much.

I'd suggest that you leave Chicago and return to the glorious (heh heh heh) Northeastern seaboard, but I *really* don't want any more bodies crammed up here, honestly.

I actually think meatpuff's point about smaller cities might apply to Philly to some extent.. not that it's a smaller city in any sense whatsoever, of course; just that its absolute center is one of its safer areas. (The same could actually be said of, say, Baltimore, too, and even Detroit, for that matter [to use a really extreme example].)
 
Old 03-08-2011, 08:41 PM
 
Location: River North, Chicago, Illinois
4,620 posts, read 8,127,023 times
Reputation: 6321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Failte View Post
Jeez e-mat don't take this personal...but touristy is what Chicago needs...these ''ethnic'' enclaves could be appreciated more but are cut-off from the touristy areas...
This is the most absurd sentence.

REAL cities don't exist as zoos or display pieces for tourists. You can't just "make" a real, working Chinatown or Little Italy somewhere and expect it to be anything like a real one.

I mean even in New York, if you want to see a real, working Chinatown, you don't go to the one in Manhattan, you go to the one in Flushing, Queens, far from the typical tourist areas.

I'm not taking it personally, but you seem to have this idea that cities exist for tourists, and that they should try to remake themselves to work for tourists instead of for their own residents. This isn't Orlando. It isn't Las Vegas. We're a city built and made primarily for things other than entertainment. People come here to see a little glitz and glamor downtown, but mostly to see a real city

Why would people even want to come to Chicago to see a packaged representation of a city or neighborhood instead of a real, working one? Would you travel to Africa to see a caged lion just because it's easier to see that way?

As far as transit goes, you can take Chicago's heaviest-used "L" line (the Red Line) directly to Chinatown and the Argyle (Little Vietnam), you can take the Pink Line directly to Pilsen (Little Mexico), Greektown isn't very big, but it was a real working Greek neighborhood and still has more than just restaurants and is walkable from the Loop, Devon Ave (Little India), isn't served by rail, but is served by a short bus ride off the Red Line or off the Brown Line, and Koreatown is served by the Brown Line. What exactly is it you want? A custom bus tour? You can get those, but I don't see why the City needs to give you a subsidized tourist tour of all those sites when there's perfectly usable public transit to them already.

You can already take a bus directly from the West Loop train stations to Navy Pier in under 20 minutes, or to the Hancock Building in 20 minutes in off-peak hours or under 30 minutes even at peak times. These aren't bad travel times. Penn Station to the Guggenheim in New York is a similar distance and takes a similar amount of time. It would simply be impossible to make everything be within walking distance in a city the size of Chicago. Pretending that that's a fault of Chicago is just silly.
 
Old 03-08-2011, 09:01 PM
 
2,115 posts, read 5,392,992 times
Reputation: 1138
Both the River North & Gold Coast areas are packed with nightclubs and they're a very quick cab ride away from the Loop. Some of these areas are arguably walking distance even on a warm summer night. Yes, the cab ride can be a bit longer to get to areas such as Lincoln Park / Wicker Park / Bucktown / Lakeview / Wrigleyville, etc. etc. But at the end of the day, I'd say Chicago has a pretty good amount of nightlife, and an amazing amount of nightlife compared to other Midwest cities.
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