Valueing diversity in Chicago while being patriotic (Berwyn, Wheeling: living in, store)

[chirack]

Originally Posted by Tex?Il?

I have a question, I'm wondering what people think.

This is in no way meant to have any underlying assumptions or opinions. I'm not trying to start an argument. I am just truly curious.

There are many people who love and value Chicago for its cosmopolitan population and many of these people are not attracted to places that are more "whitebread" and less cosmopolitan. Even some other smaller big cities are often viewed as this.

At the same time, these same people that I've spoken who express these views, also love America and think its the greatest country on earth. They even express very strong preferences for the U.S. over Canada, Australia, Britain (other well-off countries with some similarities to the U.S.).

My question is how/why is it that people who love America and think its the greatest value having a large immigrant population. If you feel like you don't want to live in or learn about the country of that persons origin, why is it so important to have larger numbers of those foreign born people living in your region. Sure restaurants are a large reason. Is it because it reinforces the idea that America and Chicago are great if people want to come here? That they would leave their home country?

Immagrants bring new ideas, new ways to do things, new things to eat. They bring the energy and dyanism. It is a very dangerous thing for a culture to isolate itself. Technology and Art all depend on new ideas. Understanding what other cultures value can help reduce conflict in peace or even give you an edge in war. Thoose imgrants add new life to our culture.

[RememberMee]

Legal immigration to USA - 1 million/year (Not counting work visas, students, etc.)
Number of birth per year (roughly) - 4.3 millions
Number of death per year (roughly) -2.3 millions

Total population increase (roughly) - 3 millions/year. Some of those are kids, some are too old to work, some are youngsters (and discarded older folks) in the holding tanks of universities and schools. Still, yearly increase in the numbers of people who need a JOB (roughly) 1.5 millions.

Since 2001 number of the people of working age who need a job increased (roughly) by 12 millions. Net creation of jobs 2001 - 2009 - ZERO (or less). So why mass immigration is needed, if "opportunities" (wonderful euphemism) dwindled to zero? I would bet on cheap, docile labor busting its arse, doing menial jobs, not rocking the boat, hoping to jump on the higher perch by busting arse, accustomed to hardships. In a generation or two, many of the fresh immigrant kids will acquire material expectations of the locals and not much in the way of satisfying those expectations, if they will see that their expectations cannot be met by doing 8/hr jobs, they will seek more lucrative "opportunities" not always legal (it always happen like this, always). Who's gonna do menial jobs for cheap with the hope of striking it big in lieu of wages? Right, boatloads of fresh immigrants, conveyor must work. Still, the numbers of "excess" population compared to the number of jobs is getting more critical every year.

[Avengerfire]

What does this thread have to do with Chicago specifically? Should this thread not be in the general U.S. forum?

[chirack]

Long term out look on jobs is good as the boomers head off(or are forced off) of work. Short term sucks atm. The only jobs that illegal immagrants do that can not be done legally is pick produce. If they left I would expect the cost of our food to atleast double if not more. They do some low skilled building trade stuff locally but even then I have seen other people doing it too. I suspect that US citizens either get more skilled in the trade or leave it. They mostly do the stuff that we used to send our teenagers to do.

[nJohn]

Originally Posted by It'sAutomatic

It also plays into the concept that anyone can make it big here, something that most of us are proud of. It is something we can relate to, since we are almost all descended from humble origins overseas as well.

I respectfully disagree. Not anyone. Especially not everyone.

[RememberMee]

Originally Posted by chirack

Long term out look on jobs is good as the boomers head off(or are forced off) of work. Short term sucks atm. The only jobs that illegal immagrants do that can not be done legally is pick produce. If they left I would expect the cost of our food to atleast double if not more. They do some low skilled building trade stuff locally but even then I have seen other people doing it too. I suspect that US citizens either get more skilled in the trade or leave it. They mostly do the stuff that we used to send our teenagers to do.

Well, many legal immigrants are college professors, programmers, engineers, doctors, nurses, business owners. This is especially visible in science and engineering departments where native borns are ever shrinking minority because those careers suck arse. Low skilled building trade? Can you build a home, since you are so skilled? they can from bottom up, they are "willing" to work cheaper so construction sweat shop owners have their hiring "preferences". Natives are squeezed out. Many immigrants have their own construction companies squeezing sweat from compatriots. Immigrants do all kind of construction, from laborer and up. In Texas there are entire manufacturing plants where English is spoken only by management. Meat packing biatches returned industry to 19th century using immigrant labor.

Well, I don't know what do native born Americans do, since most of the essential for survival tasks food, shelter, clothing, etc. are done by foreigners here or in other countries. Pushing papers around, marketeering, entertainment, gambling, finance, warehousing and distribution are those "highly" skilled areas I think.


And, btw, birth rates today are higher than those in the heydays of baby boom, so long term sucks too.

[linicx]

Moderator: Please stay on topic. The option is to close the thread. Thank you. ~ linicx

[PokerPlayer1]

Nevermind.

[chirack]

Originally Posted by LakeShoreSoxGo

I think at some point most immigrants want something more than to remain isolated in some said ethnic enclave. With capitalism there is always a step up.

Enclaves are probably most useful to first generation immigrants. Learning a new language is not easy and you will never be as fluent in a 2nd language as you would in your native one. Not to mention having things that remind you of home around. Although I am black, the generation that moved from the south in the 40ies brought along a few things from where they came from. There used to be a store on the south side called the Mississippi store(might still be there…) where you could get something like sugar cane.

A 2nd generation immigrant unless he was raised in a vacuum speaks English and speaks it well plus has picked up many new ideas from our culture. They are less inclined to live in an ethnic enclave but might for other reasons (i.e. to be near family).

A 3rd generation immigrant is even less inclined and might not even know how to speak the native language.

I think both are true they want a step up and the enclave is no longer useful.

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by chirack

Enclaves are probably most useful to first generation immigrants. Learning a new language is not easy and you will never be as fluent in a 2nd language as you would in your native one. Not to mention having things that remind you of home around. Although I am black, the generation that moved from the south in the 40ies brought along a few things from where they came from. There used to be a store on the south side called the Mississippi store(might still be there…) where you could get something like sugar cane.

A 2nd generation immigrant unless he was raised in a vacuum speaks English and speaks it well plus has picked up many new ideas from our culture. They are less inclined to live in an ethnic enclave but might for other reasons (i.e. to be near family).

A 3rd generation immigrant is even less inclined and might not even know how to speak the native language.

I think both are true they want a step up and the enclave is no longer useful.

Pretty much right on. That's why we really don't have any German, Irish, Bohemian, etc. neighborhoods anymore, except in terms of "branding." The Beverly neighborhood still has a strong Irish identity but realistically, not many of the people who live there are true Irish anymore. Ditto for Lincoln Square. Not so much a German neighborhood anymore, though it tries to retain some of that for image purposes.