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It's not just that the new Comiskey (pre-redo) was steep, but that it was towering. The lowest upper deck seats were (still are) further away from the field than the highest seats in the old park. From the upper upper seats of the new stadium, you needed the Hubble telescope to see the action.
I like the changes they've made to it but it's still hard to disguise its origins. There are plenty worse out there. As for faux-retro, I'll take those any day over the dreadfully dull and boring utilitarian stadiums that started cropping up in the 60s and finally came to an end after the new Comiskey. I've been to several games at PNC Park in Pittsburgh and it's a magnificent place to spend an afternoon or evening, whereas the Three Rivers stadium it and Heinz Field replaced (which happened to be identical to the old Busch Stadium in STL) was like watching sports in a drab Soviet-bloc architectural monstrosity. I've also been to a couple games at GABP in Cincinnati. I wasn't as impressed but it's still a damn site better than any 60s to early 90s-era park.
I think the ONLY park built in the last 15 years that will age well is Camden. The rest are just too fugly (ie Chase Field) or too iffy (ie Marlins new field) to hold the test of time, IMO. A good, clean, simple design will hold up more over time, ie the new Yankee Stadium.
I think the park gradually got a lot better after they started the facelifts in 2001, othewise it probably would not have aged well. Changing the color scheme from the ugly white with blue seats to black with green seats was big, as was the elimination of the "bowl" effect created by the old upper deck. All in all, it's now a great park to watch a game.
It would only get better with the addition of some bars and restaurants nearby. The problem is they toss you out of the Bullpen Sportsbar about 1 hour after the game I believe and unless you trek down to Halsted (the opposite direction of the L), there's not much to do.
I like the place. I never thought it was as bad as people made it out to be. I remember some article in a Chicago paper before the renovations pointing out that the upper deck was steep, but not as steep as that of another revered MLB ballpark or two. Anyway, the renovations definitely improved things. And now the consensus even around Chicago seems to be it's a pretty decent park, which is about how I see things. So that's good. Anyway, perception is everything. Whether the renovations made an objective difference, people stopped bitching about the ballpark. The White Sox needed to get that monkey off their back and so made the right move to do so.
Even though people still don't profess their love for the place that often, and surely it's not one of the top five ballparks in baseball, and certainly the neighborhood doesn't offer visitors more than a shadow of what the neighborhood around the other ballpark in town offers - it makes you appreciate it more when you imagine what might have been. The team almost moved out to Addison, IL. Now I don't care that it's not south of Madison St., and I don't care about tradition as if it had to be built across the street from the old park. But as much as people complain about the current location, can you imagine Addison? It's nice to have a true city ballpark. Two elevated lines to take you quickly from downtown (or one seat rides from the south, west or north side) to right outside the gate. Heck, if you brought your walking shoes it'd only take a little more than an hour from the heart of the Loop. True, you can't stumble out of the gate and be right on top of some hellacious nightlife, there are at least a few blocks of dead buffer all the way around the park. But there is stuff to do nearby, or public transportation to get to places with stuff to do, for those who are willing to look for it. If it were up in Addison, what would the options be, get on and off the highway for one exit so you could find a Chili's or something? But on the other hand for those who drive from outside the city or would rather just get home afterwards, there's the widest road in Illinois a block from the park. Let's take a moment to love what is good about US Cellular. And remember that many other MLB parks are sited in an area more akin to Addison than Armour Square.
That's an interesting area right near there on 35th St. Bridgeport is a vibrant and affluent enough neighborhood for this, but that is a tricky area right there around the freight tracks (this the location we're talking about, guys?). Ballgames are 81 days out of the year, so do you just design the business to make out like gangbusters and just shut down or operate at a very low level the rest of the year? Or do you have to be able to make it from non-baseball people the rest of the year? Bridgeport is great, but you've got at least a few blocks of wasteland north or south of there before you get into (non-project) residences, and intimidating barriers east and west (if east of the freight tracks). Could be difficult when there's no baseball. But hey, if it's economical to operate dozens of concession stands inside the ballpark for 81 days a year, maybe it could work just outside the gates. They should run the numbers on it, and if it looks workable, this would be great. Would be good for Bridgeport, good for the folks near IIT who need more commercial activity nearby, good for White Sox fans, could help the Sox sell more tickets...and luring more Sox fans out after games could even help more discover nice places like Schaller's that already exist. I hope it works out.
nice summary, meatpuff. there may be some irony in the pleasures the ballpark offers. it not only came before Camden Yards set the retropark model, but also the time when the money went pouring in to the new parks to serve a function far removed from baseball itself.
part of Camden Yards was about reinvigorating downtown Baltimore (reinvigoraiton not being something that DT Chgo needed) and it became the model of so many other parks to do the same. Thus it was built as a showcase, a magnet for those not even baseball fans to come and spend money downtown.
In the process, it put so many gratutious bells and whistles in place that the new parks put one on sensory overload. There was nothing subtle or refined about them.
The irony is that the new Comiskey couldn't have afforded the bells and whistles on the Illinois Sports Authority dime and that may have saved it the "let's throw in everything but the kitchen sink" mentality the newer parks included.
and the irony continues: the retroparks are so over-the-top in comparison to classic old gems that in truth, the new Comiskey, not a cookie cutter but a dedicated baseball park...has more connection with the parks of yore than the retro parks that actually tried to emulate them.
On the North Side of Chicago there is a classically simple ballpark, almost symmetrical in nature that is beloved across the nation. Perhaps the only ballpark built since 1990 (the vast majority of MLB parks so built) that could be considered a soul mate of this grand old place is found on the South Side of Chicago.
Straight forward works charms for Wrigley Field and Dodger Stadium. It doesn't do so badly at the new Comiskey Park (or whatever the cell you want to call it)
I think the ONLY park built in the last 15 years that will age well is Camden. The rest are just too fugly (ie Chase Field) or too iffy (ie Marlins new field) to hold the test of time, IMO. A good, clean, simple design will hold up more over time, ie the new Yankee Stadium.
I'd have to put Telephone-Company-of-the-Moment Park in San Francisco in that Camden Yards cateorgy.
I'd have to put Telephone-Company-of-the-Moment Park in San Francisco in that Camden Yards cateorgy.
I actually liked old Candlestick Park better. Its just me being nostalgic, thats all. Candlestick reminds me of childhood, even if it was an inferior park. Same goes for old County Stadium in Milwaukee. I like that better than the new monstrosity (Miller Park).
I've been to a glut of parks across this nation. First and foremonst SF has an amazing park, but it was built under completely different circumstances in a location and time that really helped the park and the surrounding former industrial area. Anyone who actually knows anything about candle stick and has actually attended games there, can attest to the stadiums dumpy nature and dumpy neighborhood. Last I heard the 49ers were trying to head to santa clara in silicon valley.
Camden as another poster mentioned, was part of a grand radical vision: that a stadium could revive a downtown, in an era of balitmore -washington being a one team-market... drawing fans from deleware to virginia.
Varying Circumstances make the stadium experience.
Look at wrigley, that stadium gets packed year in year out, and as classic as it is, the place is antiquated and falling apart, and should be an exhibit not a ball park. But that does not stop the faithful fan base from pilling in seats to the point that people are sitting in bleachers on rooftops? Zombrano almost caused himself a PR nightmare by suggesting the cubs and visiting ball players deserved a more modern facility.
Hell Oakland, the team with the worst attendance in the MLB was on top of the game in the late 80's and early 90's. That collusium was packed the year the won the world series and they led the MLB in attendance, in a two team market in a metro smaller than the Dc and Chicago areas. But hell a bunch of guys on roids wacking balls out of the park? A must see.
LA dodgers.....: anyone ever had the dreadfull experience of going to a ball game in southern california? Going to a ball game there is like going to a rock concert in the sticks, its an autocentric traffic jam. I never understood why so many fans show up as late as third and leave as early as the 7th, until I actually saw the collasal traffic jams that ensued before and after games. And yet the LA dodgers have been leading the national league in attendance, pretty much since they left new york. Beach balls flying around the stadium and all.
Some teams need a new stadium, other teams need to win, others need to relocate, one has to look outside the box to see what is really going on.
The white sox needed a new stadium. There are no ifs, ands, or buts about that. Comisky was falling apart and the neighborhood was sketchy. I remember being a child and seeing my dad have to punch some drunk out because he was trying to reach in my older sisters purse. I've heard stories from old timers of stray bullets from gun battles.
Post 2005? Now that 'everyone' is a fan? Well I suppose I have to take the good with the bad. The year before we won the world series I could go day of game, get a bleacher ticket for like 22 bucks and could sit in the sun all after noon. Now it cost 30 some odd dollars to sit in the bleachers, and if you cant afford that, you can go with the nickle and dime crowd up top...weak. At the same time, we have big name players, the team is competitive, and we are on the upper end of attendance in the league, and we spend big money.
The neighborhood isnt really even shady. I've got a friend who owns a home literally 5 blocks down the street. Bunch of cops, fire men, union types and what not, and youre not even sketched out to walk down the street. I'll take all the hipsters, yuppies buppies guppies, fair weathers, casuals, you name it. Because thats how seats get filled, and if people want to play up on some northside versus southside nonsense, the more the merrier.
I have no beef with cubs or cubs fans, I understand that there is a strong history between the two fan bases, and that the sox have not been the favorite since they threw the world series. Simply shameful. Its been an up hill battle since than for a team, in a part of town that most used to shun. And even with a world series under the belt we still have not 'arrived'. Maybe one day, there is hope.. if the sox could get a little dynasty going and get a few pennants and a ring or two under their belt in one stretch, the citys fan base dynamic could be altered and the cell could be the place "to be".
The white sox needed a new stadium. There are no ifs, ands, or buts about that. Comisky was falling apart and the neighborhood was sketchy. I remember being a child and seeing my dad have to punch some drunk out because he was trying to reach in my older sisters purse. I've heard stories from old timers of stray bullets from gun battles.
I hate to bring it up but the area around Comiskey was so sketchy that they built the NEW stadium ... across the street. It is a baseball stadium built by politicians for political interests. I can think of a number of places around Chicagoland where they could have placed the stadium that would draw larger crowds and away from the daily traffic jam.
Actually Comiskey was built as Tampa Bay had a new stadium that it was ready to offer to them.
I really enjoyed Candlestick; however, I would hate to have to play daily games there. Watching an August game at Candlestick was every bit as cold as watching a game in Green Bay ... in October.
Detroit's Tiger Stadium is the only one of the old stadiums that I wish was still around. If they bulldozed Wrigley, that would be fine. Tiger Stadium was the one stadium where you were on top of the action.
...If they bulldozed Wrigley, that would be fine...
Why because you are a sox fan? That would be a pretty ridiculous reason.
I liked old Comiskey. I wish it would/could have rehabbed.
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That would be a pretty ridiculous reason.
