Where'd all the Chicago taverns go? (Avon, Kansas: middle-class, schools, colleges)

[Attrill]

Originally Posted by paytonc

The city that once boasted as many 7,600 taverns in the early 1900s... by the time Daley took office in 1989, there still were well over 3,000 taverns in the city...has just over 1,300 today.

While Daley's ordinances may have accelerated the reduction in numbers, it was just the continuation of a national trend that can be seen in every US city. You can see that in the numbers leading up to Daley taking office. Taverns dropped off for a number of reasons, including:

- Loss of side businesses (like check cashing as people got bank accounts and gambling as organized crime was cracked down on in the 60's and 70's).
- Sale of alcohol at grocery stores and liquor stores as opposed to package stores/taverns only.
- Reduction in alcohol consumed in the US. Average alcohol consumption is down 43% since 1975.
- Change in styles. There are plenty of sports bars and restaurants that basically fill the same function (they're bars, but they serve food and a considered restaurants).

I also agree with Chi-town Native that it is dangerous to over romanticize a lot of these places. As a kid in the 70's I spent a lot of time in old school bars with my grandfather, and many were really depressing places. My Grandfather was a good guy who just wanted to watch some baseball, have a few beers and smoke. But I had a fair number of uncles whose retirements basically consisted of drinking and chain smoking their pension checks away until they died (usually within 5 years of retiring). Some of them were interesting guys to talk to the first time you met them, but having them be part of your life was a very different story. If they're family the cool old guy at the bar can rapidly become dragging home a 70 year old passed out drunk who's pissed himself at 4 in the afternoon.

[Savoir Faire]

Originally Posted by Chi-town Native

Although I'm as nostalgic as they come, the fact is a lot of the old school joints were beyond disreputable, and were shut down by neighbors who got tired of the constant fights and yelling and screaming outside.

Our corner tavern was called the Beartrap. And the name pretty much tells you all you know need to know- meatpacking plant workers were in that place from quitting time until close, with cops on hand pretty much every night in the warmer months to break up fights and walk some of my neighbors home.

When we moved to Avondale one of the first things I heard from immediate neighbors is how much nicer the area was since they had gotten some s***hole sidestreet corner bar shut down. I have no doubt they were on the right side of that fight.

There was a place called Bucket of Blood.

[tonythetuna]

Originally Posted by Attrill

I also agree with Chi-town Native that it is dangerous to over romanticize a lot of these places. As a kid in the 70's I spent a lot of time in old school bars with my grandfather, and many were really depressing places. My Grandfather was a good guy who just wanted to watch some baseball, have a few beers and smoke. But I had a fair number of uncles whose retirements basically consisted of drinking and chain smoking their pension checks away until they died (usually within 5 years of retiring).

So what? They were doing what they wanted to do. Now, because of uncompromising wusses, people can't do what these men did if they wanted to.

[Attrill]

Originally Posted by tonythetuna

So what? They were doing what they wanted to do. Now, because of uncompromising wusses, people can't do what these men did if they wanted to.

It has nothing to do with "uncompromising wusses". Is there an army of guys wanting to do that without a place to do it? No. There are plenty of places to go with cheap beer. It has to do with people choosing not to do that, or to do it at a slower and saner place.

[tonythetuna]

Originally Posted by Attrill

It has nothing to do with "uncompromising wusses". Is there an army of guys wanting to do that without a place to do it? No. There are plenty of places to go with cheap beer. It has to do with people choosing not to do that, or to do it at a slower and saner place.

You don't get it. The uncompromising wusses brought on the smoking ban, and have killed many of the old man bars and blue collar bars where men went to escape the b.s. of life and their families for a few hours a week after work.

[Drover]

Oh come off it. The drastic reduction began long before the smoking ban went into effect. And many of the remaining "old guy" bars ignore the ordinance with impunity, as do many of the ethnic (particularly Polish) bars.

[tonythetuna]

Originally Posted by Drover

Oh come off it. The drastic reduction began long before the smoking ban went into effect.

I am not saying it did not. The ban is a huge inconvenience to many bar patrons and workers alike. And many bars have closed in the last few years and are on the verge of closing.

[Attrill]

Originally Posted by Drover

Oh come off it. The drastic reduction began long before the smoking ban went into effect. And many of the remaining "old guy" bars ignore the ordinance with impunity, as do many of the ethnic (particularly Polish) bars.

Yep. Especially when you look at the date on the numbers that were posted and realize they're from 2 or 3 years before the ban went into effect. And yeah, there are still some old guy Polish bars where they ignore the ban.

I don't believe there have been massive bar closings since the ban went into effect. Liquor licenses are roughly the same as where they were before the ban, and (at least around me) MORE bars have been opening in the last few years.

For the record I am a smoker and I drink PLENTY. There's no shortage of places to go out and have a beer. I do it a few times a week without any trouble.

[Chi-town Native]

Originally Posted by tonythetuna

You don't get it. The uncompromising wusses brought on the smoking ban, and have killed many of the old man bars and blue collar bars where men went to escape the b.s. of life and their families for a few hours a week after work.

You don't get it in a different way. For every smoker turned off by the ban, there are nonsmokers, people sensitive to smoke (asthma, contact lenses) who now are happy to go out as they won't be coughing, rubbing their eyes, & coming home reeking like an ashtray.

My local bar is Small Bar, the original, on two side streets in Avondale. Business there has actually gone up since the ban. I was in the Green Mill a week or so ago, a place that used to have smoke so thick you could shape it with your hands, and it was still packed to the gills.

Many of my friends smoke, and I have yet to hear any of them whining about (gasp) having to go outside. Society has evolved, and it seems pretty clear to me that smokers weren't the driving force their lobbies assumed they were.

I will say that banning smoking in open-air places like sports stadiums seems like overkill.

[Chi-town Native]

Originally Posted by tonythetuna

I am not saying it did not. The ban is a huge inconvenience to many bar patrons and workers alike. And many bars have closed in the last few years and are on the verge of closing.

Have you heard of this little thing called the Recession?

And I know plenty of non-smoking bartenders who are just as happy as could be they no longer have to deal with smoke as part of their job. I also know plenty of working musicians happy that isn't part of their job.