03-07-2010, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
otters21
With the economy and the high and still rising prices ( owning cars -gas, upkeep, monthly payments,insurance and the colossal costs of maintaining homes in the newer outer auto centric suburbs and exurbs etc) I believe white flight will slow down and possibly halt in those areas in question ( northwest Chicago and Elmwood Park etc.) Today it is not affordable to simply "pull your suitcases out of the closet" pack and flee. Not all Caucasions are rich, yuppie or upper middle class. In fact most are not. As long as the Hispanics are decent and want to assimilate with their more longtime neighbors , people will probably stay put. It is not the Latinos themselves who are the problems- the real problems is are the trashy criminal thug element, gangbangers , filthy shooters etc. I think that the longtimers will now be more resistant to give up their neighborhoods because they cannot simply afford to move like they were in the past. Maybe before this recession things were skewing toward white flight but it changed things quite a bit. Also my ex roomate's boyfriend had spoken to some of his Latino co-workers. They had told him with the economy being so bad and the construction and home remodeling industry tanking many of their people are leaving the Midwestern region including Chicagoland because it is getting harder and harder to find work. That also can factor into a possible downturn of Latino influx in the neighborhoods. We will have just wait and see and only time will tell.
So very true, white flight may be forced to stop and that could be a good thing for the entire country.
03-07-2010, 10:17 AM
Location: Humboldt Park, Chicago
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Another health club that is changing is the XSport fitness in Brickyard. You wouldn't believe all the trash I see when I go there to work out.
I see the same sort of trash downtown during the week when I go to Ballys at 25 e washington, except it is mostly the security officers downtown that you have robbing other members vs gangbangers. Cars are not an issue downtown as everyone takes public transit to this ballys. The contrast at ballys among members is one of the most extreme I have seen as you have executives, lawyers, secretaries and these thug security guards all in the same place. I am tempted to go back to my old health club (Fitness Formula) and pay the 115 per month as it prices out the thugs.
This is what makes areas vulnerable to thugs, affordability. Cheap housing stock in Portage Park and Elmwood Park, River Grove make them future Melrose Parks. Oak Park (especially as you go east) and River Forest have priced out the thugs. Similarly, lack of public transit and sidewalks historically kept many poor thugs out. The only true way to keeps thugs out is to keep the areas too expensive and not accessible to those without their own car. Unless Elmwood Park and Portage Park become all 500k homes with all single family where section 8 does not make sense (ie wilmette vs skokie) the thugs will keep coming. Good luck to you in Elmwood Park. I hope you can shut the immigration of thugs down by making the police so unwelcoming to new section 8 types that they will not come.
03-07-2010, 12:02 PM
Location: Twilight zone
3,645 posts, read
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Reputation: 1772
Quote:
Originally Posted by
otters21
With the economy and the high and still rising prices ( owning cars -gas, upkeep, monthly payments,insurance and the colossal costs of maintaining homes in the newer outer auto centric suburbs and exurbs etc) I believe white flight will slow down and possibly halt in those areas in question ( northwest Chicago and Elmwood Park etc.) Today it is not affordable to simply "pull your suitcases out of the closet" pack and flee. Not all Caucasions are rich, yuppie or upper middle class. In fact most are not. As long as the Hispanics are decent and want to assimilate with their more longtime neighbors , people will probably stay put. It is not the Latinos themselves who are the problems- the real problems is are the trashy criminal thug element, gangbangers , filthy shooters etc. I think that the longtimers will now be more resistant to give up their neighborhoods because they cannot simply afford to move like they were in the past. Maybe before this recession things were skewing toward white flight but it changed things quite a bit. Also my ex roomate's boyfriend had spoken to some of his Latino co-workers. They had told him with the economy being so bad and the construction and home remodeling industry tanking many of their people are leaving the Midwestern region including Chicagoland because it is getting harder and harder to find work. That also can factor into a possible downturn of Latino influx in the neighborhoods. We will have just wait and see and only time will tell.
umm you seem a bit too eager for this no?
the working class white people will probably leave chicago still BUT they'll probably end up somewhere in cook county and not to the NW burbs or southwest burbs like years before.
03-07-2010, 12:46 PM
Location: Southwest Suburbs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
promis1
Well said and not much room for debate. However, where will whites continue to run. The reality is that they will have to learn to stabilize a neighborhood despite whatever else moves there. The entire world is being integrated. Each town must step up and implement ordinances that will protect their towns and the residents must band together and not the think the grass is greeneron the other side.
There is some room for debate with his comment, which I point to South Holland and Olympia Fields as examples where middle to upper class blacks moved in and these two suburbs are not crime-ridden, yet some white flight occur. Lynwood, IL is probably another good example. Around year or two ago, Lynwood, IL passed a law to fine people 25-$50 for sagging pants . Olympia Fields median income is $112,000, which make it wealthier than Palos Park. The difference with Olympia Fields is its cheaper than Palos Park and majority black. That is something else I notice that areas with a high population of blacks tend to be more affordable. Its both a good and bad thing. An area being too affordable allow unwanted elements to move in. I think that somewhat explain how some south suburban towns went totally downhill.
I think white flight has slowed down some since the recession, but I think its ridiculous it still happening in Chicagoland. Next thing you know Rockford will be a suburb if the sprawl continues. The fact is Chicagoland is not close to being the whitest metro in the US and around 44% of it is Latino, black, and Asian. Cook County is 45% white non hispanic. Even Dupage County is becoming more latino and around 10% Asian. I guess Asians are more favored. Whites who don't won't latino/black diversity can't run forever.
Last edited by Chicagoland60426; 03-07-2010 at 01:02 PM ..
03-07-2010, 01:40 PM
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Gentrification has been great for Lakeview, Lincoln Park, North Center, Bucktown and West town among others over the last 30 years. The area around Wrigley wasn't that good in the 70's believe it or not. However there is no doubt that places like Belmont Cragin, Hermosa where my Grandmother grewup and my parents went to high school, Franklin Park, Melrose Park, Portage Park among others have been badly hurt by this. Many Latinos I know would never raise their kids in Pilsen or Little Village. The key is getting Latinos to have a stake in the community working with whites. They don't need these thugs either.
03-07-2010, 10:20 PM
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I just read an article from September 2007 according to 38th ward sources the area from Cicero to Laramie and from Belmont to Irving is 80% Latino, and the area from Laramie to Narraganset and from Addison to Belmont isn't far behind. Don't have the numbers for Irving to Lawerance. The 2000 Census put Whites at 69% Latinos at 23% Asians at 4% and Blacks at less than one percent. This is a huge chunk of PP listed above given that a Latino majority could happen maybe by even 2015. There are foreclosures going for the low 200,000's here too.
03-09-2010, 07:08 AM
Location: Oak Park, IL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
promis1
The Elmwood Park Neighborhood Civic Organization,
Elmwood Park Neighborhood Civic Organization , is what will stabilize the Elmwood Park community. This neighborhood organization began last August and now has almost 400 members. Life long residents are joining together to make a difeerence. They hold their meeting every third Tuesday of the month at 700 p.m. at the Elmwood Park Library conference center. I am now a proud member. Since their founding about 7 months ago, they have brought a very reputable police officer and gang trainer from Gang Combat Dynamics, to begin gang suppresion training to the Elmwood Park police dept. They donate large amounts of money and time to needy residents in town. They held a huge Toys for Tots Christmas breakfast with Santa, an all free event for EP residents to come for a free pancake and egg breakfast. They had beautiful horse and carriage rides outside to take the families for a winter stroll- all free events. Now, they are holding a fundraiser for the EP baseball and softball league and their goal is to raise over 10,000 to rehab one of their ball fields for the kids. This organization will save EP and bring the town back to life, hopefully attracting yuppies to come and buy in the near future.
Best of luck. Sounds like the kind of community organizing that's necessary to forestall neighborhood decline. Just remember, the yuppies you hope to attract often bring liberal values along with high incomes. If you are successful, you may end up with another Oak Park (which according to your previous posts, you hold in great contempt.)
03-17-2010, 03:13 PM
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Alot of posters here have mentioned Avondale possibly going into decline.
From what I see, it's the opposite. A lot of young kids looking for cheap rent. Already there are trendy restaurants in the vicinity of Belmont, California and Elston. It's only a matter of time until the area becomes similar to Yuppieland, aka Wicker Park.
Logan Square's western portion is still pretty rough, though.
03-17-2010, 07:12 PM
Location: Humboldt Park, Chicago
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Avondale definitely on the decline, especially as you go west. If they can salvage Shoemaker Lofts area it may have a chance. No matter what polish will continue to be replaced by hispanics. At least you don't have the ghetto blacks we have in parts of Humboldt Park though I have seen a fair amount of hispanic gang activity (including when a mexican guy was shot at my roofing a house next to my pastor with a machine gun. This happened just north of diversey a couple blocks east of pulaski.
03-18-2010, 12:56 PM
Location: Columbus,Ohio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
oakparkdude
Best of luck. Sounds like the kind of community organizing that's necessary to forestall neighborhood decline. Just remember, the yuppies you hope to attract often bring liberal values along with high incomes. If you are successful, you may end up with another Oak Park (which according to your previous posts, you hold in great contempt.)
I rather see another Oak Park than a declining area where crimimials, thugs, gangbangers, etc. are moving in with increasing crime,shootings ,drugs, blight and rampant white and/or middle class flight.
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House/condo owner moved in on average (years ago)
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Most Common Occupations - Sales and office occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Sales and related occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Office and administrative support occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Natural resources, construction, and maintenance occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Farming, fishing, and forestry occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Construction and extraction occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Installation, maintenance, and repair occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Production, transportation, and material moving occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Production occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Transportation occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Material moving occupations (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - Correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Federal prisons and detention centers (%)
People in Group quarters - Halfway houses (%)
People in Group quarters - Local jails and other confinement facilities (including police lockups) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military disciplinary barracks (%)
People in Group quarters - State prisons (%)
People in Group quarters - Other types of correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Nursing homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards, hospices, and schools for the handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards and hospices for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospices or homes for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Military hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Other hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals or wards for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Mental (Psychiatric) hospitals or wards (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the deaf (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the blind (%)
People in Group quarters - Orthopedic wards and institutions for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in general hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in military hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Juvenile institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Long-term care (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for abused, dependent, and neglected children (%)
People in Group quarters - Residential treatment centers for emotionally disturbed children (%)
People in Group quarters - Training schools for juvenile delinquents (%)
People in Group quarters - Short-term care, detention or diagnostic centers for delinquent children (%)
People in Group quarters - Type of juvenile institution unknown (%)
People in Group quarters - Noninstitutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - College dormitories (includes college quarters off campus) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - On base (%)
People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
People in Group quarters - Transient quarters for temporary residents (%)
People in Group quarters - Military ships (%)
People in Group quarters - Group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes or halfway houses for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Other group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)