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Jesus, Paul, John, Jude, James, Barnabas, Abraham, and Peter certainly did, as did the Jews who became born again in Christ, in Ethiopia, who kept it in their collection of books.
In fact, the ancient Egyptians kept it in their "collection of books", but when they became ungodly, like Paul said all nations did, in Romans 1, they changed the truth into a lie. But Jesus assures us that He is indeed "The Amen", in Revelation 3; the same "Amen" whom Enoch revealed, hidden, who was to be revealed, and whom the ancient Egyptians worshiped in truth, after Abraham taught them from the Book of Enoch.
And FYI, you are quoting from other pseudo Enoch's in the rest of your post, not from Ethiopian Enoch, which is the same Enoch that is in the DSS collections, minus the Son of Man parables -which may be there yet, but which can be proved authentic from the rest of 1 Enoch's correlation with that portion.
In no way is Enoch "Jewish", nor is it a fable. You err and you err on purpose, and in ignorance, not caring whether it is Truth from God or not.
I know about the Amen-Ra (Amen), but I don't know where you are going with the rest of this, and I really don't think you are going to change your beliefs in Enoch any time soon, considering you have had PLENTY of wonderful responses refuting Enoch from intelligent posters before me, and still haven't changed your mind. It is kind of a waste of time then, isn't it?
I'm sorry for the confusion. Those verses didn't quote Enoch. I meant to say that the Qur'an speaks of Enoch (PBUH) as a prophet worthy of praise.
But, I really don't want to discuss this book any further with you. I'm sorry.
Last edited by herefornow; 06-23-2010 at 09:41 PM..
This is an interesting thread...Why should we believe the book of Enoch or elevate it to the level of what most consider to be inspired books? For that matter, why even the Epistle of Jude that is said to quote it (all though there is debate on this)? The early Church did not universally adopt Jude until sometime late in the 4th century, right? Why so long if it was without doubt, inspired? Maybe Jude does not belong with the inspired books either. And if not, should we spend time reading Enoch?
Even during the Protestant Reformation the canon we have today was still in dispute. For example, Luther felt the Epistle of James was perhaps spurious. Luther is often quoted as saying James was an Epistle of straw that contradicted Paul. So who's to tell the Church definitively (other than the Holy Spirit) what books are in or out, and why should we consider the book of Enoch in?
So who's to tell the Church definitively (other than the Holy Spirit) what books are in or out, and why should we consider the book of Enoch in?
That's the point. Enoch was and is called inspired.The Holy Spirit did not wait for hundreds of years to decide what to "list" in the collection of books approved for reading. He did not change His mind twelve hundred years later, either, when the Archbishop of Canterbury decided to ban the readings of the deuterocanocal books in the Church readings.
That's the point. Enoch was and is called inspired.The Holy Spirit did not wait for hundreds of years to decide what to "list" in the collection of books approved for reading. He did not change His mind twelve hundred years later, either, when the Archbishop of Canterbury decided to ban the readings of the deuterocanocal books in the Church readings.
When you say "Enoch was and is called inspired" you'll need to provide the witnesses (or those that witness for them) for a full cross examination...
The Canon has been debated for a very long time. Thousands of years. If the book of Enoch had merit, I think it would be more widely accepted by the Protestant churches, right? I've never been convicted by the Holy Spirit for not paying attention to it. And the Spirits my final authority on all these matters. Sorry, but if there is no inner conviction by the Spirit telling me to read it, it's probably not something I'll be doing...
I don't think you do know about the Amen, who is Jesus Christ, who was once worshipped in truth by the Egyptians, who had been taught by Abraham after Abraham had spent 40 years in the house of Noah and Shem learning the ways of the LORD -as the "Correct Record/Jasher" states.
Ra is the sun, and "in the sun hath He set His tabernacle", says the Scripture [Psalm 18:6, Douay Rheims & Septuagint, faithfully translated from the Hebrew] So Christ the Amen sits in the sun, on His throne, and He is revealed as God the Word come in flesh, who is Jesus Christ.
So the ancients turned His glory into a lie, and worshipped the creature instead of the Creator -not unlike modern men who also corrupt the Truth and twist it into a lie, because their hearts become darkened.
Rev 3:14And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God.
The Egyptians learn of the Truth who is hidden, from Abraham reading to them from Enoch: Translation of 1Q Genesis Apocryphon (1QapGen)
Genesis Apocrypha, Dead Sea Scrolls:
Abraham writes:
Quote:
Sarai to go to Zoan [with me, for she was v]ery [careful] with her person so that no [one] would see her […]. But after those five years, three men who were princes of Egypt [came … …] of Pharaoh Zoa[n] about my affairs and about my wife, and they presented [me numerous gifts and aske]d m[e to teach them] values, wisdom, and truth. So I read in their presence the [book of] the words of [En]och
From the Egyptian Book of the Dead, translated by Wallis Budge. The Egyptians worship Jesus Christ as "the Amen", God in heaven who is hidden, as Enoch revealed Him.
Quote:
“God is one and alone, and none other existeth with Him – God is the One, the One who hath made all things – God is a spirit, a hidden spirit, the spirit of spirits, the great spirit of the Egyptians, the Divine spirit – God is from the beginning, and He hath been from the beginning...
He hath existed from old and was when nothing else had being. He existed when nothing else existed, and what existeth He created after He had come into being...
He is the Father of beginnings – God is the Eternal One, He is eternal and infinite and endureth forever, and yes – God is hidden and no man knoweth His form. No man hath been able to seek out His likeness; He is hidden to the gods and men, and He is a mystery unto His creatures...
No man knoweth how to know Him – His name remaineth hidden; His name is a mystery unto His children. His names are innumerable; they are manifold and none knoweth their number...
God is truth and He liveth by Truth and He feedeth thereon. He is the king of truth, and He hath stablished the Earth thereupon – God is life and through Him only man liveth. He giveth life to man, He breatheth the breath of life into his nostrils – God is father and mother, the father of fathers and the mother of mothers. He begetteth, but was never begotten; He produceth, but was never produced; He begat himself and produced himself. He createth, but was never created; He is the maker of His own form and the fashioner of His own body.
God Himself is existence He endureth He endureth without increase or diminution,God hath made the Universe, and He created all that therein is; He is the Creator of what is in this world, and of what was, of what is, and of what shall be. He is the Creator of the Heavens, and of the Earth, and of the deep, and of the water, and of the mountains.
God hath stretched out the Heavens and founded the Earth – what His heart conceived straightway came to pass, and when He hath spoken, it cometh to pass and endureth forever – God is the father of the gods; He fashioned men and formed the gods – God is merciful unto those who reverence Him, and He heareth him that calleth upon Him. God knoweth him that acknowledges Him; He rewardeth him that serveth Him, and He protecteth him that followeth Him.”
Rev 3:14And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God.
When you say "Enoch is and was called inspired" you'll need to provide the witnesses (or those that witness for them) for a full cross examination...
The Canon has been debated for a very long time. Thousands of years. If the book of Enoch had merit, I think it would be more widely accepted by the Protestant churches, right? I've never been convicted by the Holy Spirit for not paying attention to it. And the Spirits my final authority on all these matters. Sorry, but if there is no inner conviction by the Spirit telling me to read it, it's probably not something I'll be doing...
When you say "Enoch is and was called inspired" you'll need to provide the witnesses (or those that witness for them) for a full cross examination...
The Canon has been debated for a very long time. Thousands of years. If the book of Enoch had merit, I think it would be more widely accepted by the Protestant churches, right? I've never been convicted by the Holy Spirit for not paying attention to it. And the Spirits my final authority on all these matters. Sorry, but if there is no inner conviction by the Spirit telling me to read it, it's probably not something I'll be doing...
The Holy Spirit is not political, is not debating, and did not make a list hundreds of years after the church was founded for just western Christians under Rome's influence: and neither did He change His mind about that list 1500 years later, for western protestants only.
Enoch was called Scripture by Jesus. Barnabas, Paul's fellow, and an equally called apostle to the Gentiles, along with Paul, and who was one of the seventy disciples and John Mark's uncle, and who was the brother to Mary -in whose house the disciples gathered to pray- called Enoch Scripture and quoted from it, as many early Church writers did do.
Paul understood the Gospel of Christ revealed by Enoch the prophet, and by and the Living Oracles.
Bible Study: Which Bible? Whose Canon?
Enoch is Scripture in the Ethiopian Bible, and always has been.
Enoch is Scripture in my Bible [collection of books], and I am only sorry that I did not discover it sooner, as it answers so many foundational questions.
The Holy Spirit is not political, is not debating, and did not make a list hundreds of years after the church was founded for just western Christians under Rome's influence: and neither did He change His mind about that list 1500 years later, for western protestants only.
Enoch was called Scripture by Jesus. Barnabas, Paul's fellow, and an equally called apostle to the Gentiles, along with Paul, and who was one of the seventy disciples and John Mark's uncle, and who was the brother to Mary -in whose house the disciples gathered to pray- called Enoch Scripture and quoted from it, as many early Church writers did do.
Paul understood the Gospel of Christ revealed by Enoch the prophet, and by and the Living Oracles.
Bible Study: Which Bible? Whose Canon?
Enoch is Scripture in the Ethiopian Bible, and always has been.
Enoch is Scripture in my Bible [collection of books], and I am only sorry that I did not discover it sooner, as it answers so many foundational questions.
Are you saying the Holy Spirit had no influence on the Protestant bible?
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