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I am also a non-believer (I mentioned this in an earlier post) and have been fascinated by the answers here. I still can't wrap my head around thinking of this life as nothing more than a wisp! I do not believe in an afterlife - and I know that many of you find that sad and inconceivable - but to me - it just makes my life so much fuller and more interesting! To be honest - I don't think I want to exist for an eternity! I'm fine with ceasing to exist - I see it as a nice sleep at the end of the most wonderful day. However, this is not my point - I'm just rambling and I do apologize!
I have many religious friends and I think there are some of them that think, deep down, I am going to hell. However, I also have many religious friends that - even though they don't think everyone will be saved - do believe that I will be saved because I am a good person. I don't know if they are UR's or ET's as I didn't even know those terms existed until I found C-D! But I would say the majority of my religious friends believe that God knows the good souls from the bad. To be honest, it all makes no difference to me since I don't believe in an after life. I know, I know - open your heart to Jesus, how can you care you won't burn in hell for all eternity etc. I appreciate your concern - and I'd like to think it is genuine concern (sometimes it does sound very threatening - whether you mean it to or not) - but I'm very happy and peaceful in my beliefs. I think every single day is precious. I think life here is the most important thing in the world - well, I mean I guess love is the most important! I don't mean to offend - I just find it hard to believe that anyone would think of life as a wisp or mist - I feel like that belittles this wonderful journey!
Yes ... IMO it's like getting another life in a video game. You certainly try harder when you know you have only one shot.
How is June so certain of how much time she has left?
June is more than aware that she could be driving home from work tonight and perish in a car accident. Or a tree could fall on her head and squash her like a grape and she'd be dead. June's awareness of that, however, does not rise to the level of chronic worry; rather, it merely informs June as to what needs to be acknowledged in her life in the moment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jremy
I'm not sure that the disagreements between the UR and ET camps means that there is no unity in Christendom at all.
Ah, but June is not so sure that as a believer you are seeing quite so clearly what June does. For anyone who is not familiar with the overall message behind the gospels, to come on here and actually read these ET v. UR threads would lead one to the conclusion that Christians are unable to be a cohesive group, and are unable to agree on the fundamentals of their own belief system.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertJoe
I know that "June" must really laugh in these forums at times.
On ocassion, there is humor. More and more, however, the divisions that exist and the form that they take makes June rather sad. --As well as mystified as regards why the need and compulsion for man made contention when to June's way of thinking, there need be none. (Or at least not quite as much.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jremy
Finally, I find your choice of words most interesting: "threaten" you with hell?
That word has connotations that simply don't reflect the reality of why we share the gospel.
"Threaten." Yup, absolutely. June is not saying that you, in particular, have ever threatened June with going to hell. What June is saying is that when you go back and read what exists within the overall "Great Debate" there is not so much "warning" going on, as outright threats. It can't help but make June wonder what form your churches would take if the same existed in real life...Perhaps it does, for all June knows....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
As opposed to worrying about hell, I would say June needs to open the door as Christ is knocking.
Finn, June is in no way worried about hell. June can't even say that she's even remotely concerned with it, to be quite honest. (Sorry.)
As for opening any doors, she's not so very sure there is anyone actually knocking, let alone a door upon which to knock....
Ah, but June is not so sure that as a believer you are seeing quite so clearly what June does. For anyone who is not familiar with the overall message behind the gospels, to come on here and actually read these ET v. UR threads would lead one to the conclusion that Christians are unable to be a cohesive group, and are unable to agree on the fundamentals of their own belief system.
That would be a premature conclusion at best. The vast majority of Christians agree on the fundamentals: the Virgin Birth, the sinless life of Christ, the Trinity, faith, repentance, the resurrection of the dead, and so on.
Quote:
"Threaten." Yup, absolutely. June is not saying that you, in particular, have ever threatened June with going to hell. What June is saying is that when you go back and read what exists within the overall "Great Debate" there is not so much "warning" going on, as outright threats.
I'd be interested in seeing the exact wording of some of these "threats" and trying to determine whether they really are such. Do you have any quotes?
Finn, June is in no way worried about hell. June can't even say that she's even remotely concerned with it, to be quite honest. (Sorry.)
As for opening any doors, she's not so very sure there is anyone actually knocking, let alone a door upon which to knock....Take gentle trying care.
I didn't suggest you were worried about hell. It was a response to Phazelwood, who insisted we talk about hell after I said one simply needs to do is open the door when Chist knocks.
Have you ever thought that maybe God hooked you up with the Christianity forum so one day you would see something that would help you hear the knocking ?
It seems your experiences differ from mine. For example, the first Bible I used was the New American Standard. But then again, I was not raised in the Church. I was raised in an atheistic home. I came to the Lord at age 24. I am used to churches that allow discussion and differing POVs from their attendees and members
I am aware of the type of church you refer to. We have one in my area. People call it the "Cult On The Hill".
I used to attend a church where at the end of the service (the last 15-20 minutes) was Q & A time. If the "time was up" and there still were more questions, then whoever wanted to stay could stay and ask questions until they were all answered. This was done every week.
Yet you felt the need to engage me to some degree. Since obviously my complaint did not prevent you from doing that, we must conclude that you are using my complaint as a way to make me the issue. Again, pointless quibbling and argumentation. This is my last post to you because this is getting ludicrous.
And the fact remains that since I answered your question, you should have the fair-mindedness to address the answer in its entirety. You didn't do so. Why? Because you're not interested in thorough, honest debate. At least your posts give no evidence that you are.
And another fact that remains is that you have ignored my respectful request to address this issue in another thread, examining the texts of two relevant passages in detail using the Greek and the context. Too bad. I was hoping you'd be up to it. Since you don't want to delve into those crucial elements (context and original language) of this issue, and also since you've put on clear public display that you just want to argue, I see no point in any further interaction with you. You would just be talking past me.
Have a nice day.
I was interested in getting people to speak the whole truth of their beliefs, I have accompished that, what you believe about me is unimportant.
I am also a non-believer (I mentioned this in an earlier post) and have been fascinated by the answers here. I still can't wrap my head around thinking of this life as nothing more than a wisp! I do not believe in an afterlife - and I know that many of you find that sad and inconceivable - but to me - it just makes my life so much fuller and more interesting! To be honest - I don't think I want to exist for an eternity! I'm fine with ceasing to exist - I see it as a nice sleep at the end of the most wonderful day. However, this is not my point - I'm just rambling and I do apologize!
I have many religious friends and I think there are some of them that think, deep down, I am going to hell. However, I also have many religious friends that - even though they don't think everyone will be saved - do believe that I will be saved because I am a good person. I don't know if they are UR's or ET's as I didn't even know those terms existed until I found C-D! But I would say the majority of my religious friends believe that God knows the good souls from the bad. To be honest, it all makes no difference to me since I don't believe in an after life. I know, I know - open your heart to Jesus, how can you care you won't burn in hell for all eternity etc. I appreciate your concern - and I'd like to think it is genuine concern (sometimes it does sound very threatening - whether you mean it to or not) - but I'm very happy and peaceful in my beliefs. I think every single day is precious. I think life here is the most important thing in the world - well, I mean I guess love is the most important! I don't mean to offend - I just find it hard to believe that anyone would think of life as a wisp or mist - I feel like that belittles this wonderful journey!
Why do you post here? Is it just for fun? I'm genuinely curious. I'm not trying to be rude and hope it doesn't come across this way!
Why do you post here? Is it just for fun? I'm genuinely curious. I'm not trying to be rude and hope it doesn't come across this way!
I didn't use to but sometimes I have questions - not questions about the Bible but questions about people's beliefs. Like I said, I'm not religious and I'm not interested in converting. I just see so much disagreement and hostility between people - I try to understand people with other beliefs and ideas. I'm on a quest to understand all people better. I think the more we understand each other, maybe the more we can respect each other and get along better with each other. I started a thread here with I question I had about Hell a little while ago - and I started looking at some of the other threads when I would check on my own. This thread was started by an atheist - so I didn't think I was that off base in posting here. There are also a lot of Christians that post in the Atheist/Agnostic forum - a lot of them to stir things up (not all - but a lot of them). I try not to stir things up here - I always try to be very respectful. If it bothers you, I will certainly stop sharing. Like I said, it has never been my intention to offend.
I didn't use to but sometimes I have questions - not questions about the Bible but questions about people's beliefs. Like I said, I'm not religious and I'm not interested in converting. I just see so much disagreement and hostility between people - I try to understand people with other beliefs and ideas. I'm on a quest to understand all people better. I think the more we understand each other, maybe the more we can respect each other and get along better with each other. I started a thread here with I question I had about Hell a little while ago - and I started looking at some of the other threads when I would check on my own. This thread was started by an atheist - so I didn't think I was that off base in posting here. There are also a lot of Christians that post in the Atheist/Agnostic forum - a lot of them to stir things up (not all - but a lot of them). I try not to stir things up here - I always try to be very respectful. If it bothers you, I will certainly stop sharing. Like I said, it has never been my intention to offend.
No, I don't mind at all!! Keep posting. I was just curious. I hope I didn't offend you. The mod here is an atheist so if she's here so should you
No, I don't mind at all!! Keep posting. I was just curious. I hope I didn't offend you. The mod here is an atheist so if she's here so should you
No - you didn't offend me at all! Like I said, I try not to stir things up (I'm not sure if I'm always successful) and I try not to offend (although it's probably unavoidable)! I just like to hear what makes other people tick. I already know what makes me tick! And I know we all think we are right (I know I think I'm right -even when I'm wrong and my hubby points it out to me) so we aren't necessarily going to change anyone's minds - but we can understand each other better!
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I don't mean to offend - I just find it hard to believe that anyone would think of life as a wisp or mist - I feel like that belittles this wonderful journey!
