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Yes, that's what I'm saying. That's my goal, anyway.
UR teaches that there will be more chances, or 'ages', than to accept Christ now, in the flesh. But this isn't what the scriptures teach, is it?
Search your heart. Search for God.
Read Romans 6. Study it, and show me what you have discovered.
To sin IS death, period. There is no ifs, ands, or buts about it. That is the wage, and it WILL BE PAID!! It isn't talking about flesh only either. Jesus made this CLEAR.
Listen to what Paul says. MANKIND's sentence of death can only be nullified THROUGH Jesus,,,NOW!!!!
Look:
But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life.
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
One of the reasons I take the time to argue against ET doctrine is that it does (by nature) put an emphasis on the afterlife. I mean really - what good does any kindness do if it doesn't lead directly to helping a soul avoid an eternally bad forever?
The ET paradigm screws everything up so badly. When you say "far more essential and far reaching issues at hand to be dealt with than "after death."" well, in the ET paradigm nothing is more important than where you spend eternity. How could it be? What good does it do to help a little old lady across the street if she dies burns in hell forever?
That's why I got out of the church system. It (generally) obsesses on believing the right doctrines to make God happy and to turn away wrath etc.
Exactly, Firstborn. I could not have said it better.
UR teaches that there will be more chances, or 'ages', than to accept Christ now, in the flesh. But this isn't what the scriptures teach, is it?
Not really
First religion asserts that it has something to do with "Chances" when it is not about that in the first place. You might justify using those terms but the "Scriptures" do not speak of it being about chances.
Scriptures teach assurance.
Can you assure someone that God loves them enough that there eternal destiny is in his hands and ultimatly and totally that is the greatest news concerning death?
No, really you can't, but the scriptures do teach assurance, not "Chances".
Sciotamicks, you didn't answer my question. Here it is again:
OK. You called my statement that you and others believe, "Nothing is impossible with God except to save all mankind," is an assumption. Is my assumption correct that you believe that, or do you, instead, believe it is indeed possible for God to save all mankind?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks
I don't follow you...I never said I would cite a source. I wasn't addressing this topic.
You quoted me with this: If I'm wrong, please cite a reliable source of UR beliefs saying that it is possible to PLEASE God without faith.
....and then commented below it, so I was pointing out that you didn't address what you quoted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks
No...I called your usage of 1 Tim 2:4 and the thought above an assumption. 1 Tim 2:4 has nothing to do with what you present.
I would prefer to invoke Isa 9:7, because 1 Tim 2 :4 has nothing to do with what you present. The kingdom increases, therefore it confirms election...again.
I know, when we see such statements as you made in regards to the above verse and your assumptions. Get used to it.
Are we even talking about the same post? I didn't even quote 1 Tim 2:4. But since you keep bringing it up, I have a question for you. That verse says that God would have all men to be saved and come unto the knowledge of the truth. I've seen many people post on the forum that all men will come unto the knowledge of the truth, and will regret all their mistakes while they are in hell after this realization. Why do people choose which half of this verse to believe, and have no problem believing that ALL men will come to the knowledge of the truth, but refuse to believe that ALL men will be saved?
Last edited by Bright Hope for Tomorrow; 06-25-2010 at 08:17 AM..
Reason: stuff
Save all mankind? UR teaches that accepting Jesus Christ NOW is the only way to salvation, and I tend to agree with that.
If you accept Jesus now, you are freed from the bondage of sin, being led by the Holy Spirit and free to live a life of faith, love, peace, and good works.
You reap what you sow. No ones sows setting someone on fire for eternity. It's impossible. So therefore, it's impossible to reap that.
Jesus died to save us from our sins and spiritual death. That's what we are saved from. The bible does not say we are saved from eternal torment. "The wages of sin are death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."
NO, accepting Jesus Christ NOW is what UR teaches as the only way to salvation. There is no salvation after death, only reconciliation after a time of refining. Those who do not accept Christ now will go into the afterlife to some kind of punishment. It is not eternal as you like to teach, it is only for a time and it most likely will be very unpleasant.
So that is the extent of Christ's atonement for sinners: He provided a satisfaction for God's wrath that we could provide ourselves in the next life anyway? If that were true, then Christ is not our only hope of salvation; our own sufferings, too, will provide us a way out.
This is one of the problems with UR, at least the way that you have explained it: It puts Christ on the same level as sinners in terms of the ability to atone for sin. But the very thing that makes Christ's redemptive work so necessary and crucial for us is the fact that he was sinless while we are sinful. Only a sinless lamb could be sacrificed acceptably to God. We, being sinful, cannot suffer for our sins in such a way that would satisfy the wrath of God. That inability is actually what makes it eternal. Only the sinless Lamb of God could suffer in such a way as to make a full payment for sin that satisfies the wrath of God completely.
Ilene, you are effectively believing that man can propitiate God apart from Christ. Do you realize that?
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I don't follow you...I never said I would cite a source. I wasn't addressing this topic.
