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I wanna know what loopholes or what aspects of UR don't make sense to June.
Can you help me out?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright
I read your whole post and I would also like to know what it is about UR that doesn't make sense to you...
June would be more than happy to respond to the above, but is afraid it will have to wait as she is pressed for time and needs to get to her office. She was thinking about this last night, however, and came across the quote, below, which in her mind would somehow seem to reconcile what is a huge, vast discrepency between the two sides of ET v. UR. For those who dislike/disaprove of "The Message" or don't accept it as being 'the bible' June apologizes in advance, but the quote, below, worked well for her:
"I'm praying not only for them
But also for those who will believe in me
Because of them and their witness about me.
The goal is for all of them to become one heart and mind --
Just as you, Father, are in me and I in you,
So they might be one heart and mind with us.
Then the world might believe that you, in fact, sent me.
The same glory you gave me, I gave them,
So they'll be a unified and together as we are --
I in them and you in me.
Then they'll be mature in this oneness,
And give the godless world evidence
That you've sent me adn loved them
In the same way you've loved me." (John 17:20-23)
...Somehow, the above speaks volumes to June, not the least of which saying that this whole divisive issue was somehow addressed in the gospel of John, but June could be attributing something to the above passage that isn't intended; quoting out of context?
June would be more than happy to respond to the above, but is afraid it will have to wait as she is pressed for time and needs to get to her office. She was thinking about this last night, however, and came across the quote, below, which in her mind would somehow seem to reconcile what is a huge, vast discrepency between the two sides of ET v. UR. For those who dislike/disaprove of "The Message" or don't accept it as being 'the bible' June apologizes in advance, but the quote, below, worked well for her:
"I'm praying not only for them
But also for those who will believe in me
Because of them and their witness about me.
The goal is for all of them to become one heart and mind --
Just as you, Father, are in me and I in you,
So they might be one heart and mind with us.
Then the world might believe that you, in fact, sent me.
The same glory you gave me, I gave them,
So they'll be a unified and together as we are --
I in them and you in me.
Then they'll be mature in this oneness,
And give the godless world evidence
That you've sent me adn loved them
In the same way you've loved me." (John 17:20-23)
...Somehow, the above speaks volumes to June, not the least of which saying that this whole divisive issue was somehow addressed in the gospel of John, but June could be attributing something to the above passage that isn't intended; quoting out of context?
Hopefully not....
Take gentle care.
While I think it does speak volumes, I'm still a little confused as to how this doesn't line up with UR. I think we (UR's and ETers) ARE of one heart and mind as Christians who believe in and worship Jesus Christ as Lord. Anything beyond that is, well, debatable. I don't think any of us have it exactly right and anyone who says they do is just wrong. I can understand why June doesn't understand all the debating, though. I'll wait for your response when you have time.
You don't have to be on attack mode 24/7 you know.
I did not attack you or anyone else. In fact, the statement above is more of an attack than anything I said. I simply stated my observation that you acknowledge there is something people have to do to help save themselves. The sad part about that is, according to you, some WANT to be born again but can't figure out how to help save themselves.
While I think it does speak volumes, I'm still a little confused as to how this doesn't line up with UR. I think we (UR's and ETers) ARE of one heart and mind as Christians who believe in and worship Jesus Christ as Lord. Anything beyond that is, well, debatable. I don't think any of us have it exactly right and anyone who says they do is just wrong. I can understand why June doesn't understand all the debating, though. I'll wait for your response when you have time.
I'm praying not only for them (diciples) But also for those who will believe in me Because of them and their witness about me (unbelievers who would find the truth by listening to the diciples preaching).
So, people do not find the truth automatically, and there is no universal salvation, people need to hear and accept the message. Otherwise, why would Jesus send his diciples to the world to spread the message? He sent them so that people would come to Christ when they hear it.
and earlier in the Jesus's prayer he says of believeres:
For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me. 9I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours.
I did not attack you or anyone else. In fact, the statement above is more of an attack than anything I said. I simply stated my observation that you acknowledge there is something people have to do to help save themselves. The sad part about that is, according to you, some WANT to be born again but can't figure out how to help save themselves.
The sad part? Yes, there are millions of people out there who hear the calling, but are not sure what it is. Why do you think the Bible tells believeres to talk to people about the truth? Why did God send his diciples to spread the word? Because God uses people to spread the message to those he is calling. People need to hear it, so they will recognize it and accept it.
And would you mind quit twisting my words please? Thanks. I already clarified it to you that I do not believe people can save themselves, so why do you continue to suggest I am saying that? That is the attack you continue. Again, you are better off defending your own beliefs as opposed to trying to attack mine. It seems it is more important for you to demean Christianity and suggest faults, contradiction and weaknesses in the Bible than to promote your own faith. That is the approach usually taken by anti-Christian atheists. Why are you using it?
The sad part? Yes, there are millions of people out there who hear the calling, but are not sure what it is. Why do you think the Bible tells believeres to talk to people about the truth? Why did God send his diciples to spread the word? Because God uses people to spread the message to those he is calling. People need to hear it, so they will recognize it and accept it.
And would you mind quit twisting my words please? Thanks. I already clarified it to you that I do not believe people can save themselves, so why do you continue to suggest I am saying that? That is the attack you continue. Again, you are better off defending your own beliefs as opposed to trying to attack mine. It seems it is more important for you to demean Christianity and suggest faults, contradiction and weaknesses in the Bible than to promote your own faith. That is the approach usually taken by anti-Christian atheists. Why are you using it?
There are many reasons that God sent his disciples to spread the word/good news, and that we are to tell people about the truth. One is that if we believe in Him we can know Him, and God has special blessings for believers such as hope, peace, love, joy, patience, goodness, gentleness, faithfulness, and self control. One of the reasons is not to make sure they find out that many of those they love/loved will burn for eternity in fire, and they will too if they can't figure out what to do to be saved. This is not scriptural.
I didn't twist your words. You said:
"Many want to be born again, but simply haven't taken the steps yet, or don't know what to do."
I said:
"I simply stated my observation that you acknowledge there is something people have to do to help save themselves. The sad part about that is, according to you, some WANT to be born again but can't figure out how to help save themselves."
That's the same thing. If I had twisted what you said, I would have stated that you believe that there is NOTHING someone can do to help save themselves, and God does the saving all by Himself.
It makes no sense for you to say I demean Christianity when I am a Christian. I demean the false doctrine that the just, holy, loving, merciful and almighty God tortures people. There are no weaknesses in the bible. Just misunderstood interpretations, parables, and prophesies that originated with spiritually weak people.
My desire is to defend the character of God. Sometimes defending my beliefs comes with the territory.
Actually you have shown that you are the one wasting your own time, I can post whatever I like within forum rules in whatever manner I like and I really do not care what you think about them.
You make assumptions that are in your head and certainly nothing that I need to be concerned with.
Might that be a euphamism for, "I'm not up to the challenge of actually answering that question that Dreaming Spires asked?"
Might that be a euphamism for, "I'm not up to the challenge of actually answering that question that Dreaming Spires asked?"
You can think whatever you like about it.
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I don't think any of us have it exactly right and anyone who says they do is just wrong. I can understand why June doesn't understand all the debating, though. I'll wait for your response when you have time.
Just wondering
