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Again, more threats!
I cannot accept a doctrine of extortion as "the word of God." (Anyone who doesn't understand what extortion is can read it in a dictionary.)
Without experience in the Spirit, we cannot truly understand the scriptures, because they were inspired by the Holy Ghost, which many people have never known. Many doctrines today are man-made, and eternal torment is one of them. Extortion is not Godly. It is not "just," it is not "holy," no matter how they twist it.
"God has done all He can" is also man-made. The TRUTH is that MAN has done all he can, and he is failing miserably. Only the Good Shepherd can save the sheep, it is not the sheep that are asked to "return to the fold."
Blessings to all,
brian
The above poster calls the justice of God extortion.
As I said. Most people have sense enough to know that universalism is a false doctrine. But there will always be those who refuse to believe the scriptures, and prefer their own belief system. Such people are lost, unless they wake up and believe the truth. Most will not.
No Mike, the doctrine you preach is extortion. God is very different imo.
Blessings to you,
brian
From Jesus Himself...
Matt 8:28 ''And do not fear those who kill the body, but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matt 25:41 ''Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; [46] ''And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.''
Matt 7:22 ''Many will say to Me on that day, ''Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' [23]'And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'
The Jesus who said these things is the very same Jesus who will carry out these things at the appointed time.
Here is Jesus at the end of the Millennium, as the judge sitting in judgment of those who rejected His offer of salvation Revelation 20:11 'And I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it (Jesus Christ), from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them. [12] And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, (unbelievers only) and books were opened and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. [13] And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them accordig to their deeds. [14] And death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. [15] And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
Jesus came as the Lamb the first time and graceously warned of the consequences of rejecting Him as Savior. Of rejecting Him as the only hope for deliverance from the penalty of sin.
All who are born are already condemned. Their only deliverance from the condemnation is to place their faith in Christ who died in their place. All who die having rejected Christ as Savior remain condemned.
When He comes the second time, He will come as a lion, in judgment, carrying out exactly what He said He would do, and then at the end of the Millennium, He will carry out the Great White throne judgment.
The opinions of universalists place them in direct contradiction of what God has declared to be true. The truth revealed in the written word of God stands forever.
John 3:36 ''He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.''
Those who are wise will heed the warnings given by Christ Himself. The foolish will disregard those warnings and remain lost.
Matt 8:28 ''And do not fear those who kill the body, but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matt 25:41 ''Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; [46] ''And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.''
Matt 7:22 ''Many will say to Me on that day, ''Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' [23]'And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'
The Jesus who said these things is the very same Jesus who will carry out these things at the appointed time.
Here is Jesus at the end of the Millennium, as the judge sitting in judgment of those who rejected His offer of salvation Revelation 20:11 'And I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it (Jesus Christ), from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them. [12] And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, (unbelievers only) and books were opened and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. [13] And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them accordig to their deeds. [14] And death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. [15] And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
Jesus came as the Lamb the first time and graceously warned of the consequences of rejecting Him as Savior. Of rejecting Him as the only hope for deliverance from the penalty of sin.
All who are born are already condemned. Their only deliverance from the condemnation is to place their faith in Christ who died in their place. All who die having rejected Christ as Savior remain condemned.
When He comes the second time, He will come as a lion, in judgment, carrying out exactly what He said He would do, and then at the end of the Millennium, He will carry out the Great White throne judgment.
The opinions of universalists place them in direct contradiction of what God has declared to be true. The truth revealed in the written word of God stands forever.
John 3:36 ''He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.''
Those who are wise will heed the warnings given by Christ Himself. The foolish will disregard those warnings and remain lost.
The scriptures, including the verses you quote above, are a testimony of the Spirit. They are not to be understood according to the flesh, as you intend. You will not be able to understand them (nor will anyone be able to understand them) unless the Spirit give you an understanding.
The letter by itself leads to death. Only through spiritual eyes can we begin to understand what was written. Read according to the flesh, the verses contradict who God is.
The scriptures, including the verses you quote above, are a testimony of the Spirit. They are not to be understood according to the flesh, as you intend. You will not be able to understand them (nor will anyone be able to understand them) unless the Spirit give you an understanding.
The letter by itself leads to death. Only through spiritual eyes can we begin to understand what was written. Read according to the flesh, the verses contradict who God is.
Blessings,
brian
Moderator cut: Deleted Don't like something the Scriptures say so allegorize them and make them mean what you want them to mean. Those scriptures are quite literal. And of course all scripture has to be understood from the standpoint being filled with the Holy Spirit. They mean what they say. All who die having rejected Christ are eternally lost. And justly and rightfully so. I have absolutely no sympathy for people who wilfully deny the Scriptures.
Moderator cut: deleted
I'll say one more time that most people have sense enough to know that universalism is not Biblical. But there will always be people who refuse to believe the clear words of Scripture.
People who end up in hell do so by their own choice. They have only themselves to blame. But I lose absolutely no sleep over it, for I have spoken the truth. That's all I can do.
And the Bible is the written word of God. The word of truth. To deny what it says is to call God a liar.
Originally Posted by ahigherway The scriptures, including the verses you quote above, are a testimony of the Spirit. They are not to be understood according to the flesh, as you intend. You will not be able to understand them (nor will anyone be able to understand them) unless the Spirit give you an understanding. The letter by itself leads to death. Only through spiritual eyes can we begin to understand what was written. Read according to the flesh, the verses contradict who God is.
Blessings, brian
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555
Moderator cut: Orphaned Don't like something the Scriptures say so allegorize them and make them mean what you want them to mean. Those scriptures are quite literal. And of course all scripture has to be understood from the standpoint being filled with the Holy Spirit. They mean what they say. All who die having rejected Christ are eternally lost. And justly and rightfully so. I have absolutely no sympathy for people who wilfully deny the Scriptures.
Moderator cut: Orphaned
I'll say one more time that most people have sense enough to know that universalism is not Biblical. But there will always be people who refuse to believe the clear words of Scripture.
People who end up in hell do so by their own choice. They have only themselves to blame. But I lose absolutely no sleep over it, for I have spoken the truth. That's all I can do.
Which one of his statements do you believe are ignorant words?
1. The scriptures, including the verses you quote above, are a testimony of the Spirit.
2. They are not to be understood according to the flesh, as you intend.
3. You will not be able to understand them (nor will anyone be able to understand them) unless the Spirit give you an understanding.
4. The letter by itself leads to death.
5. Only through spiritual eyes can we begin to understand what was written.
6. Read according to the flesh, the verses contradict who God is.
Moderator cut: Deleted He apparently thinks he is able to judge who is saved since he has had all the understanding he claims is necessary for salvation ever since he was five years old.[/i]
[i]Mike, even though you can at least see that he has "God consciousness" and "positive volition" towards God as you say, you don't have time to waste to be the one to help try to save him. I guess your time is very valuable. Moderator cut: Deleted as rude
Originally Posted by ahigherway The scriptures, including the verses you quote above, are a testimony of the Spirit. They are not to be understood according to the flesh, as you intend. You will not be able to understand them (nor will anyone be able to understand them) unless the Spirit give you an understanding. The letter by itself leads to death. Only through spiritual eyes can we begin to understand what was written. Read according to the flesh, the verses contradict who God is.
Blessings, brian
Which one of his statements do you believe are ignorant words?
1. The scriptures, including the verses you quote above, are a testimony of the Spirit.
2. They are not to be understood according to the flesh, as you intend.
3. You will not be able to understand them (nor will anyone be able to understand them) unless the Spirit give you an understanding.
4. The letter by itself leads to death.
5. Only through spiritual eyes can we begin to understand what was written.
6. Read according to the flesh, the verses contradict who God is.
Brian, don't worry about Mike's demeaning, non-loving, un-Christ-like comments. He apparently thinks he is able to judge who is saved since he has had all the understanding he claims is necessary for salvation ever since he was five years old.
Mike, even though you can at least see that he has "God consciousness" and "positive volition" towards God as you say, you don't have time to waste to be the one to help try to save him. I guess your time is very valuable. Maybe you need to go eat a sandwich or something? You'll lose no sleep over thinking people are burning in hell because you DO NOT love your neighbor as yourself. You have admitted as much.
Lady, I will give the truth as I have. Beyond a certain point, I will not go. Give the truth and get out of the way. When that truth is rejected over and over, then there is nothing more to say. Let those who refuse to believe the word of God reap what they have sown. Those who end up in hell are there by their own rejection of the truth. And I sleep just fine.
Also, when we elevate the written Bible above the Spirit of God, who is the Word Himself, we commit idolatry.
Peace,
brian
This is one heck of a statement and shows th truth behind UR.
A quick lesson.....if it wasn't for the Holy Writ, we would know nothing of Jesus Christ....nothing. Candlestick and lampstands...mean anything to you?
Mike, your 'truth' is only your opinion, yet in your arrogance I can't find where you have ever refereed to your own belief as your opinion, but your simply and arrogantly decree how things are, but the reality is, it is just your opinion. You are not here to debate, you are here to preach, and it really does nothing to support your opinions.
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You'll lose no sleep over thinking people are burning in hell because you DO NOT love your neighbor as yourself. You have admitted as much.