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But we are not talking English here. We are talking Greek.
Lost= Strong's G622 ἀπόλλυμι apollymi
1) to destroy a) to put out of the way entirely, abolish, put an end to ruin b) render useless c) to kill d) to declare that one must be put to death e) metaph. to devote or give over to eternal misery in hell f) to perish, to be lost, ruined, destroyed 2) to destroy a) to lose
So, IOW, these are the ones who being prepared for destruction, are called forth by the Son of God. His Sheep hear His Voice. They follow Him, where-ever He goes.
The goats, the tares, the bad fruit,,,are all destroyed. Abolished. Put out of the way. Rendered useless. Killed. Declared dead. Perished. Lost. Ruined.
GONE!
Absolutely!
The goats, tares and bad fruit that is within ME.... yep... on the wide path to destruction.
This is GOOD news. GREAT news!
And I'm not about to fool myself in thinking that I don't have goats and tares and bad fruit inside. It's there all right. And God is the one DESTROYING all those things. Do you know why? Because I am His child and HE is a GOOD FATHER. He is doing this for ALL of us.
Anyway, I am open to the idea that there could be some scenario in which a soul could be destroyed.
I believe since all humans are 'outside' of the Kingdom, then they are born TO destruction. Lost, IOW. Only through Jesus, thereby becoming born-again, that the soul is reconciled to the Father.
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It is not incompatible with my reading of the Bible.
Jesus said it. I believe it.
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Like you, I don't believe in a literal hell.
Well, I believe in hell, just not the eternal torment chamber. Hell is destroyed.
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Where we differ, I think, is in our definition of goats, tares, and bad fruit. I think really aren't any, not really, even though the scenario is certainly presented, and you think there are a lot.
But we are not talking English here. We are talking Greek.
Lost= Strong's G622 ἀπόλλυμι apollymi
1) to destroy a) to put out of the way entirely, abolish, put an end to ruin b) render useless c) to kill d) to declare that one must be put to death e) metaph. to devote or give over to eternal misery in hell f) to perish, to be lost, ruined, destroyed 2) to destroy a) to lose
So, IOW, these are the ones who being prepared for destruction, are called forth by the Son of God. His Sheep hear His Voice. They follow Him, where-ever He goes.
The goats, the tares, the bad fruit,,,are all destroyed. Abolished. Put out of the way. Rendered useless. Killed. Declared dead. Perished. Lost. Ruined.
GONE!
Huh? you did not do your homework hotin.
If as you beleive apollumi are the goats, tares etc and ALL are the goats tares are destroyed then Jesus failed most misserably for He came to SAVE the apollumi/lost.
So in effect what you are saying is Jesus failed to SAVED even ONE of those He came to save.
The goats, tares and bad fruit that is within ME.... yep... on the wide path to destruction.
This is GOOD news. GREAT news!
And I'm not about to fool myself in thinking that I don't have goats and tares and bad fruit inside. It's there all right. And God is the one DESTROYING all those things. Do you know why? Because I am His child and HE is a GOOD FATHER. He is doing this for ALL of us.
peace,
sparrow
Yes, I know I do not love like God, I want to, but I do the things I do not always want to do, I accept that I do those things, but God promises he will teach me and I believe that.
However, with that said, God has taught me, even when I hated him, even when I did not believe, the scriptual path shows me that I didn't have to believe before God was doing a good work in me.
If as you beleive apollumi are the goats, tares etc and ALL are the goats tares are destroyed then Jesus failed most misserably for He came to SAVE the apollumi/lost.
So in effect what you are saying is Jesus failed to SAVED even ONE of those He came to save.
What a crapy view of the one who NEVER fails.
What you call a crappy view is nothing but glorious in mine.
ALL of the goats, tares, etc are gone.
Unless we are a NEW CREATION, born again of the spirit, we shall not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven.
This is the beauty of what Christ did. I am sorry you cannot see it.
This is also why it is so important to preach the gospel, in it's entirety.
So that those who cannot hear, may hear. and those who are blind, may see.
Our commission is the same as Jesus' was. Only He did it, and showed us how to do it, and so we help with it.
When the Spirit of the Lord is upon us,
We are anointed to preach the gospel to the poor in spirit,
To proclaim release to those who are captive, and imprisoned in darkness,
To give sight, to the blind
To set free those who are oppressed,
To proclaim the favor of the Lord,,,
BECAUSE,,
Our Father, who is in heaven
Blessings and Honor to your Name,
Your Kingdom has come
You will is being done
ON EARTH, as it is IN HEAVEN.
Grant us this day, your Word
And forgive us for our iniquities
As we forgive those who siinned against us
And let your trials be bearable
and deliver us from ALL evil.
For YOURS is the Kingdom, the Glory, the Honor,,,FOREVER!!
Yes, I know I do not love like God, I want to, but I do the things I do not always want to do, I accept that I do those things, but God promises he will teach me and I believe that.
Then sit down and learn. You play the role of a teacher, yet seek the meat of the gospel. Why? Seek first the Kingdom of Heaven, and ALL things will be added unto you.
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However, with that said, God has taught me, even when I hated him, even when I did not believe, the scriptual path shows me that I didn't have to believe before God was doing a good work in me.
Hmm, ok. Show me this.
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Now I simply see what he was doing all along.
Like what perhaps? How do you know for certain that your heart is not hardened, for His purpose? Think Pharoh thought his was? Hmm.
What you call a crappy view is nothing but glorious in mine.
ALL of the goats, tares, etc are gone.
Unless we are a NEW CREATION, born again of the spirit, we shall not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven.
This is the beauty of what Christ did. I am sorry you cannot see it.
This is also why it is so important to preach the gospel, in it's entirety.
So that those who cannot hear, may hear. and those who are blind, may see.
Our commission is the same as Jesus' was. Only He did it, and showed us how to do it, and so we help with it.
When the Spirit of the Lord is upon us,
We are anointed to preach the gospel to the poor in spirit,
To proclaim release to those who are captive, and imprisoned in darkness,
To give sight, to the blind
To set free those who are oppressed,
To proclaim the favor of the Lord,,,
BECAUSE,,
Our Father, who is in heaven
Blessings and Honor to your Name,
Your Kingdom has come
You will is being done
ON EARTH, as it is IN HEAVEN.
Grant us this day, your Word
And forgive us for our iniquities
As we forgive those who siinned against us
And let your trials be bearable
and deliver us from ALL evil.
For YOURS is the Kingdom, the Glory, the Honor,,,FOREVER!!
Hotin I agree all the goat and tares are gone forever, but not in the same view you present.
You beleive that people, who you refer to as gaots and tare, will be utterly destroyed based on aplollumi.
Yet you also beleive that all mankind is apollumi since the garden and only those who beleive in this life can get saved.
so if apollumi means utter destruction of people and people who are in utter destruction can be saved in this life, why do you then insist that those who die in their sins will be utterly destroyed?
You simply cannot have it both ways, either people who are apollumi are utterly destroyed or they are not.
And if they are utterly destroyed then not ONE human being can ever be saved for according to you own beleif ALL mankind sinse the garden are apollumi.
So you beleive you are saved (and I am not arguing the point) but tell me how you are saved if NO ONE can be saved out of apollumi?
Does apollumi all of a sudden have a different meaning after a person dies then it does while a person lives?
For that surely is what you must beleive if apollumi means utter destruction of mankind.
Then sit down and learn. You play the role of a teacher, yet seek the meat of the gospel. Why? Seek first the Kingdom of Heaven, and ALL things will be added unto you.
Learn what, that Jesus is a failure? No thanks. Even if I NEED to learn that truth, I can't find any good that it would prodice in my life.
You sit down.
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Hmm, ok. Show me this.
Show you what? That I give God thanks for allowing me to meet my wife that infuenced me to quit one of the more destructive behaviours in my life. Well, I do not think I can show you this, you would have to have known me in person for quite a few years.
Sit down
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Like what perhaps? How do you know for certain that your heart is not hardened, for His purpose? Think Pharoh thought his was? Hmm.
I have confidence, but cannot prove it any more than you can prove that God actually gives one crap about your "devotion".
Hotin do you know what it means to be FITTED to destruction?
FITTED is the Greek word katartizo
Katartizo means
to render, i.e. to fit, sound, complete
1a) to mend (what has been broken or rent), to repair
1a1) to complete
1b) to fit out, equip, put in order, arrange, adjust
1b1) to fit or frame for one’s self, prepare
1c) ethically: to strengthen, perfect, complete, make one what he
ought to be
Enhanced Strong’s Lexicon
It is always used to make complete, to mend, to make fit, to make one what he ought to be.
There is a purpose to apoleia (a derivative apollumi) Hotin and that purpose is to make, through mending, people as they ought to be made.
And how is man to be made?
In the image and likeness of God.
Katartizo ( fitted ) Is always used for making things as they should be made.
We read in Mt.4:41 & Mk.1:19 of James and John mending (katartizo ) their nets.
We read in Co.1:10 how we are to be perfectly joined together (katartizo) in mind and judgment with Christ.
In Gal.6:1 we read how we are to restore(katartizo) one who are taken in a fault.
In Heb.13:20-21 we read how our great shepherd through the blood of the everlasting covenant, makes us perfect (katartizo) in every good work to do His will.
And in
1 Peter 5:10 we read
10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect(katartizo) stablish, strengthen, settle you.
That after we have SUFFERED a while makes us perfect, establishs us, strengthens us,and settles us.
Brother we are all fitted to destruction , wherein our old man is crucified forevermore no longer to rise again because a NEW MAN is standing where an old man once stood.
God will mend and restore us in His fire unto a perfect man.
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