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Old 07-19-2010, 08:01 AM
 
Location: Italy
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Hi all,
we are told by Jesus to forgive. And if we forgive, we will also receive forgiveness ourselves.
And if we do not forgive each other, we ourselves will not receive forgiveness.

Which is harder to do? to forgive, or to ask forgiveness?

Curious to hear your thoughts..

Blessings to all,
brian
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Old 07-19-2010, 08:04 AM
 
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I think it can depend on the person, what or who they need to forgive or what they need to ask forgivness for.
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Old 07-19-2010, 08:10 AM
 
Location: Indianapolis
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Forgiveness of self and our actions towards others is the hardest part of forgiveness. When we react in a ngeative manner when someone is negative to us, we forget that it is in our own actions where true forgiveness lies.

We do not need to ask another to forgive us since all forgiveness lies in the self. When we send love to the one that is in need of forgiveness, they in turn are more apt to give forgiveness without being asked. If someone is forced into forgiveness, it is a form of control and neither party will be forgiven. It must lie in the intent and in the Love of each other and self for true forgiveness to happen.
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Old 07-19-2010, 08:44 AM
 
Location: Italy
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When I look around me, what I see most is that people do not want to ask forgiveness. But when someone asks them for forgiveness, it seems that they can give it quite easily.
Could it be that asking forgiveness from someone else is an act of humility? a type of submission?

To simply this, let's use a practical but hypothetical example:
A person goes to a party and gets drunk. He/she drives home, and on the way home, hits and kills a young person.
The next day, faced with the surviving family members, who has the hardest job?

Blessings,
brian
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Old 07-19-2010, 08:52 AM
 
Location: Indianapolis
4,325 posts, read 5,489,449 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
When I look around me, what I see most is that people do not want to ask forgiveness. But when someone asks them for forgiveness, it seems that they can give it quite easily.
Could it be that asking forgiveness from someone else is an act of humility? a type of submission?

To simply this, let's use a practical but hypothetical example:
A person goes to a party and gets drunk. He/she drives home, and on the way home, hits and kills a young person.
The next day, faced with the surviving family members, who has the hardest job?

Blessings,
brian
Giving forgiveness is harder than the asking. True forgiveness comes from the soul. Even if you say you forgive someone, it may not always be true forgiveness. It could just be a reaction and not a reaction that comes from the soul.
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Old 07-19-2010, 09:11 AM
 
Location: Italy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverend1111 View Post
Giving forgiveness is harder than the asking. True forgiveness comes from the soul. Even if you say you forgive someone, it may not always be true forgiveness. It could just be a reaction and not a reaction that comes from the soul.
I don't agree. And the reason I don't agree is this:
When a person asks another person for forgiveness, they are putting themselves in the hands of the other. They are basically saying, "I am freed only if you free me."
This situation puts the potential forgiver into a position of power, and a type of "superiority," because the forgiveness is dependent upon them.
It would be like someone who commits murder, and confesses the crime, basically leaves it to the victim's family to either carry out punishment or forgive.

-Or am I missing something?

Blessings,
brian
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Old 07-19-2010, 09:40 AM
 
Location: Oak Point, TX
7,601 posts, read 12,524,667 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
To simply this, let's use a practical but hypothetical example:
A person goes to a party and gets drunk. He/she drives home, and on the way home, hits and kills a young person.
The next day, faced with the surviving family members, who has the hardest job?

Blessings,
brian
I don't think that scenario gives the plaintive proper focus, because of the remorse involved in killing another (and facing the victim's family) - of course he will be sorry.

I think rather we should look at David's example: He said after committing adultery and murder that he had sinned against God only - why? Sin is defined not as wronging another person, but assaulting the glory of God. The prophet Nathan didn't tell David that he had killed a man, taken the man's wife, and caused the death of a child, but that David had despised the word of God - the man after God's own heart had turned his back on his God - and the Covenant is the first order of business.

So the example of the man guilty of manslaughter is first to realize that the ultimate wrong here was his rebellion against God.
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Old 07-19-2010, 09:44 AM
 
Location: Indianapolis
4,325 posts, read 5,489,449 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
I don't agree. And the reason I don't agree is this:
When a person asks another person for forgiveness, they are putting themselves in the hands of the other. They are basically saying, "I am freed only if you free me."
This situation puts the potential forgiver into a position of power, and a type of "superiority," because the forgiveness is dependent upon them.
It would be like someone who commits murder, and confesses the crime, basically leaves it to the victim's family to either carry out punishment or forgive.

-Or am I missing something?

Blessings,
brian
Yeah, but we don't want another to control. We want the other to love into forgiveness. We are not at the mercy of each other. We are to serve and forgiveness is serving, not having another control our situations. We cannot force forgiveness, it has to come out of Love of the other.

Most people who ask for forgiveness are only doing it because it's what's expected. In the actual forgiving, it has to come from the heart, the soul, in order for it to truely take place. This also has to come from the self if the reaction to the action was a negative. Both parties have to be involved whereas asking is only one sided. Does that make more sense?

Lets say someone hits you because they didn't like what you said. You, in turn, hit them back or say something that is negative. When that person asks you to forgive them and you do, you are still carrying that negative because you still haven't forgiven yourself for reacting negatively. One is forgiven and the other is not. Total forgiveness is for the self and the other. When we leave it one sided, one still needs the forgiveness even after 10 years has passed. Most people don't even think to forgive themselves so it's much harder to receive forgiveness.
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Old 07-19-2010, 09:46 AM
 
Location: Italy
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So wronging another person is really only wronging God?? Is this why Christians can freely offend and emotionally hurt "unbelievers" by judging and condemning them, because they cannot wrong others?

Blessings,
brian
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Old 07-19-2010, 09:47 AM
 
Location: Indianapolis
4,325 posts, read 5,489,449 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
I don't think that scenario gives the plaintive proper focus, because of the remorse involved in killing another (and facing the victim's family) - of course he will be sorry.

I think rather we should look at David's example: He said after committing adultery and murder that he had sinned against God only - why? Sin is defined not as wronging another person, but assaulting the glory of God. The prophet Nathan didn't tell David that he had killed a man, taken the man's wife, and caused the death of a child, but that David had despised the word of God - the man after God's own heart had turned his back on his God - and the Covenant is the first order of business.

So the example of the man guilty of manslaughter is first to realize that the ultimate wrong here was his rebellion against God.
And his sin was in the not loving of another not the actual killing. When we do not love each other, we can harm each much easier. God forgave him but he still had to pay the penalty for not forgiving himself. True forgiveness lies with both parties.

Now if the action was negative and the reaction was positive, the forgiveness is easier to do. The one doing the negative will see that the reaction was of love and the forgiveness will happen right away.
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