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I agree that the fruits of the Spirit are one way to tell if you, or decern if someone else is "In Christ", (you will fully know them by their fruits. - Matthew 7:17-20) but as the article says, "A Christian, of course, is not simply one who joins a Christian church. Nor does adhering to a certain moral standard in your life or the fact that you consistently read the Bible make you a Christian". So you might be able to fool yourself or others as the Pharisees did, by controlling your outward actions. I think that why we must look at the whole picture.
And I agree that we actually have to learn scripture ourselves to make sure that we are not following the "traditions of men" above or instead of the Word of God. God gave us the book, HIS book to teach us. Not that we should continue to be fed like babies, but so we could learn as well.
Thanks for your reply ... I only wanted to add the fact that i don't count the fruits of the spirit so much as our works, as they are the fruit of the work of the spirit in our lives. I can see how that necessarily extends into our works, in that if we have the fruits of the spirit they will be evident in our actions. So that all the Glory belongs to God.
The point of examining yourself though is to recognize that you are a sinner and lead you to the cross where Christ became sin and died for you, isn't it?
Actually Jessep, examining yourself it for those who already think they are saved. Like me. I was "saved" when I was just a child. I can still remember the day like it was yesterday. I was nine years old. I had come home that day from vacation bible school. I can remember kneeling in my blue room on my blue and white chenille bedspread before my window where the light was shining thru. I asked God to come into my life. But as I grew into my teenage years I slipped easliy into sin. And stayed there. I stopped going to church around 14 or so for the most part, and lived my life the way I saw fit not really concerned with the plan that God had for my life. Thru Gods urging, I got back into a church in my late 30's where I promptly was invited to a bible study. It was thru that study of the scripture that I learned that I was NOT a Christian but had been taking the Lord's name in vein for all those years. Telling people that "I was a Christian" but not actually living out my faith. We were doing a study on 1st John. It was an indepth study that we had hours of homework to go through. I was convicted then, but I still continued on my way until we got into 1st Peter... and I felt even more convicted that I had not been living my life as God would have me. I conceeded. I was broken by the life I had lived... most people would say I was a good girl and that I lived a very respectful, law abiding life... but I knew better.... I knew the real me... and God showed me though his scripture that He knew me too. I went to my bible study group and told them that God was convicting me and that I needed to "walk the isle" again and confess to my church before God and men that I was not a Christian, but God had changed that. Thru tears, and alot of hugs I was ready. BUT, I wanted to wait until my daughter could be there to see me make that journey. That Sunday morning was going to be like any other morning. I was not walking the isle without my daughter there so I was just expecting a good sermon. That was until I heard what the pastor was preaching on. 1st John!! He said that he had a friend who had asked him "How do you know if you are a Christian?" He told her to read 1 John, pray on it, meditate with prayer and fasting, and read all the commentaries... whatever you can find on it. Do this for 30 days. If at the end of the 30 days if you still believe that you are a Christian, you always were. By the end of the sermon I was bawling like a baby. God knew what I needed. I didn't need to wait another week.... I didn't need to wait another minute!!! So I walked that isle.. with my bible study girls by my side praying with me I made that commitment that GOD will be in the rest of my life... my decision.. my thoughts and my prayers. As the pastor huged me, he told me that 2 of his kids went thru the same thing as they studied the scripture. No one can tell you how to be a Christian... God has to lead you and it is only thru HIS word and prayer that can happen... His word is SOOO different than what most people believe. He is always showing me something new... everytime I read the bible.
I do not believe that is what Paul had meant with that verse for self examination.
Wayward believers nowadays are chasing after the Holy Spirit. They go to Toronto or to Pensacola or to their church for the phenomenon of the "Holy Spirit" coming and going in the worship place.
That verse about examining oneself is in light of that. No one should be chasing after the Holy Spirit when He is in us as promised by Jesus Christ.
To do any chasing is akin to labouring in unbelief and in works denying Him.
Believers would do well to remember their first love and be chaste in their relationship with God by relating to God the Father through the Son: the Bridegroom.... and not be cahsing after other "gods" or "spirits" in the world that seeks to take the spotlight off of Jesus in the worship place... even for a moment.
Granted, we should also examine ourselves in our walk with the Lord, but I read this self examination in regards to our faith is meaning to avoid anything that would be contrary to what we say and believe.
And there are many believers that will say that they believe that the Holy Spirit is in them, but they still chase after the Holy Spirit to get "more" of Him...as if they are not complete in Christ and are a leaky vessel.
Colossians 2: 5For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ. 6As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: 7Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. 8Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
Matthew 9:17Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.
No believer is a leaky vessel if they wish to be a witness of the Son in what He has done for us. We are complete where we can rest in Jesus Christ as being His to be a witness of Him in seeking the glory of His name and not another's nor any movement of the "Spirit".
Enow, I don't believe you should chase the Holy Spirit. Once you have the Holy Spirit in you, you have Him for good. I believe that you know by his conviction of sin for things that you once saw no problem with. But, as you will read in my prevous (lengthy) comment, you have to actually have HIM for that to happen.
Thanks for your reply ... I only wanted to add the fact that i don't count the fruits of the spirit so much as our works, as they are the fruit of the work of the spirit in our lives. I can see how that necessarily extends into our works, in that if we have the fruits of the spirit they will be evident in our actions. So that all the Glory belongs to God.
To examine one's self is to test yourself in situations of vulnerable temptations. That is what the word there 'examine' means, in the Greek.
Think of it this way. To test and see if you are a Christ filled person, go to the beach, or to the mall, and see if your thoughts remain pure. That is a testing. See if your actions and speech reflect that of Christ. If not, and your thoughts are not pure, you have failed the test and need to seek Him further!! Because that is what Paul is saying.
Test yourselvesto seeif you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you—unless indeed you fail the test?
How many fail this test? How many would give excuses as to WHY they fail this testing. I have heard the terms. Carnal-Christian comes to mind. Really, it is an either-or. Not kinda, maybe, once in a while.
The test Paul is talking about, as I understand it, is whether Christians truly know and have experienced that Jesus Christ is IN them; that is, not beyond the clouds somewhere, but actually dwelling in their flesh. (The second coming.)
The test Paul is talking about, as I understand it, is whether Christians truly know and have experienced that Jesus Christ is IN them; that is, not beyond the clouds somewhere, but actually dwelling in their flesh. (The second coming.)
Blessings,
brian
Bingo!
So how would you tell, unless you examine-test, yourself. Can you see this is what Paul is saying?
So how would you tell, unless you examine-test, yourself. Can you see this is what Paul is saying?
Hi Tony,
well, I'm not sure if this is where you're going with this, but.. I would say that if you have the Spirit in you, you know it. You know Jesus is there because you hear and feel Him.
That's why I believe the second coming of Christ is when you realize and see Him within you. To me, this is the Kingdom of God.
Enow, I don't believe you should chase the Holy Spirit.
Me neither, but some do in error which is why that verse of self examination in the faith would apply.
Quote:
Once you have the Holy Spirit in you, you have Him for good.
Amen.
Quote:
I believe that you know by his conviction of sin for things that you once saw no problem with. But, as you will read in my prevous (lengthy) comment, you have to actually have HIM for that to happen.
Right. I thank Jesus Christ for being My Good Shepherd as He leads me by the Holy Spirit within me.
To examine one's self is to test yourself in situations of vulnerable temptations. That is what the word there 'examine' means, in the Greek.
Think of it this way. To test and see if you are a Christ filled person, go to the beach, or to the mall, and see if your thoughts remain pure. That is a testing. See if your actions and speech reflect that of Christ. If not, and your thoughts are not pure, you have failed the test and need to seek Him further!! Because that is what Paul is saying.
Test yourselvesto seeif you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you—unless indeed you fail the test?
How many fail this test? How many would give excuses as to WHY they fail this testing. I have heard the terms. Carnal-Christian comes to mind. Really, it is an either-or. Not kinda, maybe, once in a while.
Peace,
Tony
Even the Apostle Paul failed the test then:
Rom 7:14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. Rom 7:15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. Rom 7:16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. Rom 7:17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. Rom 7:18 I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. Rom 7:19 For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do-this I keep on doing.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it. Rom 7:21 So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. Rom 7:22 For in my inner being I delight in God's law; Rom 7:23 but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway;15920787
[B
That's why I believe the second coming of Christ is when you realize and see Him within you.[/b] To me, this is the Kingdom of God.
Blessings!!
brian
Brian, I can appreciate that but then you have scriptures like this:
2Th 2:2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come. 2Th 2:3 Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 2Th 2:4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God.
Mat 24:23 At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or, 'There he is!' do not believe it. Mat 24:24 For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect-if that were possible. Mat 24:25 See, I have told you ahead of time. Mat 24:26 "So if anyone tells you, 'There he is, out in the desert,' do not go out; or, 'Here he is, in the inner rooms,' do not believe it. Mat 24:27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
Mat 24:30 "At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory.
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His word is SOOO different than what most people believe. He is always showing me something new... everytime I read the bible. 
