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I'm wondering why nobody has responded to arleigh's question or to mine:
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Originally Posted by arleigh
Does that include Revelations?
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Originally Posted by Katzpur
Paul seemed to believe there would be a need for the same structural organization that existed in the Church in his day to continue until were all unified in our faith. How much unity do you see within Chritianity today?
I pretty much ignore Revelations. The rest of the bible is sufficient enough to lead one to Jesus.
You pretty much ignore Revelation? So, would you say it's okay for everybody to pick which parts of the Bible they want to accept and which parts they want to ignore? Oh, and by the way, many scholars believe that John's gospel was written after Revelation. So do you ignore that, too? Or do you ignore Revelation for other reasons?
You pretty much ignore Revelation? So, would you say it's okay for everybody to pick which parts of the Bible they want to accept and which parts they want to ignore? Oh, and by the way, many scholars believe that John's gospel was written after Revelation. So do you ignore that, too? Or do you ignore Revelation for other reasons?
From a scholarly point of view . . . Revelation is the most abstruse, ambiguous, arcane, cryptic, enigmatic, esoteric, inscrutable, mysterious, recondite, and unintelligible book in the Bible. The knowledge required to even begin to grapple with its hermeneutics and symbolism is enormous . . . it is not unusual for the average person not to try to unravel its meanings. Those who do are on very thin ice. Those who express certainty about their interpretations are fools, IMO. Just my 2 cents worth.
From time to time, I see posts where people say that the New Testament warns us not to listen to "false prophets"? Wouldn't it just have been a lot less confusing if we'd just been warned not to listen to "prophets," period? I don't know of anybody but the LDS who believe that God still speaks to "true prophets." Why weren't we told to beware of "prophets" in general instead of just "false prophets"?
False prophets are those teachers that go against the Laws of God and what Jesus taught. Love God and each other. If any prophet teaches anything negative, he is a false prophet, or has let his own thoughts abscure the truths.
As we grow in our consciousness, we will need to have more of God's truths reavealed to us. There will always be a need for prophets until we are all At-one with God.
If God didn't reveal more of His Truths, we could not progress. No man can rise higher than that which he is taught until he reaches out for something better.
You pretty much ignore Revelation? So, would you say it's okay for everybody to pick which parts of the Bible they want to accept and which parts they want to ignore? Oh, and by the way, many scholars believe that John's gospel was written after Revelation. So do you ignore that, too? Or do you ignore Revelation for other reasons?
What Mystic said. :-)
It is not the timing but it is so hard to understand it serves very little in leadning one to salvation.
It has always been a problem, many in the early church did not use it. Luther and Calvin had their problems with it. Luther did not use it until he figured out he could paint the pope as the anti-christ. Calvin never wrote a commentary on it.
As you may notice most people here take bits and pieces of the bible, this is why 80% of what we see are out of context verse quotes. I just look for the gospel message.
It is not the timing but it is so hard to understand it serves very little in leadning one to salvation.
I agree. It's extremely difficult to understand.
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It has always been a problem, many in the early church did not use it. Luther and Calvin had their problems with it. Luther did not use it until he figured out he could paint the pope as the anti-christ. Calvin never wrote a commentary on it.
How early is "early"? The biblical canon of today is quite different than the 2nd century canon.
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As you may notice most people here take bits and pieces of the bible, this is why 80% of what we see are out of context verse quotes. I just look for the gospel message.
Agreed, but we're kind of starting to go off topic.
How early is "early"? The biblical canon of today is quite different than the 2nd century canon.
"Second century Christians in Syria rejected it because Montanism, a sect which was deemed to be heretical by the mainstream church, relied heavily on it.
In the fourth century, Gregory of Nazianzus and other bishops argued against including Revelation because of the difficulties of interpreting it and the risk of abuse. It was accepted into the canon at the Council of Carthage of 397 AD."
There is no more need for anyone to prophesy of a Messiah because He has come. But as I said before, that is not the only role of a prophet. Paul seemed to believe there would be a need for the same structural organization that existed in the Church in his day to continue until were all unified in our faith. How much unity do you see within Chritianity today?
You are exactly correct: the NT church structure (apostles, prophets, evangelists, teachers, pastors) (all five, not just the last three) was meant to help grow the Church until such time that we all came into unity in the faith. At present, there is no unity...everyone has their own doctrines and beliefs.
It is interesting to see how so many Christians "explain away" the scriptures about apostles and prophets today...either that, or they just gloss over or ignore them totally...
Do Christians believe the Bible? Sure, they "kinda sorta" do. Until they stumble across a scripture they don't like, or believe in...then they scramble to find something to discredit what that part of the Bible says...
Bud
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