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Demons are supposed to be fallen angels who rebelled against God.
Why would they be rewarded with positions of authority, doing what they like, tormenting people?
I think Bill Wiese is a false teacher.
Bill why don't you just cut the crap, take your book and skip town already. Anyone with half a brain knows you and your wife are nothing but scam artists. I've seen you on YouTube looking like a darn fool shooting your own self in the foot when people are asking you at your seminars about what you saw down there and all you can respond back with is "Oh well in Mark this and Luke that it says this and it says that." "Scripture says this and scripture says that." We know all about what scriptures say already bill. Your just an idiot. You and Annette. Go out and get a real job like the rest of us or start your own business if you wanna get rich you lazy bum.
Last edited by Dannybudweiserman; 01-31-2019 at 02:35 PM..
Demons are supposed to be fallen angels who rebelled against God.
Why would they be rewarded with positions of authority, doing what they like, tormenting people?
I think Bill Wiese is a false teacher.
It's obvious that someone else was handling the author's email and correspondence, which is nothing unusual. Many busy people have assistants and secretaries to handle their correspondence.
Since the author himself wasn't able to answer, it makes sense that this assistant couldn't (or shouldn't) answer for him. The message was specifically addressed to the author, after all.
More importantly, why is this +8 year-old thread being dug up? I know; the same old throwing of stones at Christianity by people who have never tried to fully understand it, and have nothing better to do than judge and complain in shrill manner.
Last edited by Thoreau424; 02-01-2019 at 08:38 AM..
I recently read Wiese's book 23 Minutes in Hell and couldn't help but write him a few lines. I truly was not expecting to get a response, but I did. The response seemed more like a marketing tool than anything else. I'll let you be the judge. I welcome any and all users on this forum to answer the questions that I posed to Bill in my letter. I asked some very specific questions, and did not get the response I was looking for. I value any and all responses that people could provide. My letter went as follows:
Hello Bill,
I write to you today not as an enemy of Christianity, but as a person that struggles with his faith. To begin, I will give a brief history of myself. I was raised in a die-hard Christian home. As a youth, I was raised in the church, and I attended AWANA's for many years, ultimately achieving the Timothy Trophy before leaving the program. I attended Calvary Bible Church in Burbank throughout my childhood. The current pastor is a person you might be familiar with, Dr. Jack Hughes. But in the end, my mother was so hardcore that she diverted me away from religion. As an adult, I still went to church, but not for the right reasons. I went out of obligation, not because it captivated my interest or because I wanted to grow with my knowledge of the Lord. I have said the sinners prayer many times in my life, but felt no change. I never understood people's fascination with going to church. I never "wanted" to be there. It seemed like an unwanted task verses a desired event. I have prayed many times that God just put the "Vulcan Mind Melt" on me so that I can appreciate the lifestyle that a "true" Christian does. I have never experienced any kind of change in attitude or desire to walk the walk. I bought your book for $13 dollars because the title caught my interest at the supermarket.
I am now beginning to believe that I have the tendencies of a Deist (verses a Monotheist). I believe that God created the universe, but has since washed his hands of his affairs with humans. What else can possibly explain the atrocities that we see in daily life? Just recently, a strong Christian entity in my town lost his son in a car accident. Why would God allow this to happen to a dedicated Christian man, while evil people thrive in every aspect of their lives? I'm so tired of the "You just gotta have faith" mentality. Is this how God rewards his faithful? Why did God allow YOU to have this experience of Hell? Would it not make infinitely more sense to drop that kind of bomb on a wildly popular devout atheist the likes of Christopher Hitchens or Bill Maher, who control the publicity side of the Atheistic fight? They have mega-millions of unsaved followers. Don't you think that would have been a much more realistic approach to the problem? I mean, after all, he is an omniscient God, yes? What makes you think that people will believe you more than any other hellfire and brimstone preacher? If God really wanted to make an impact, he would have allowed an extreme disbeliever this revelation, not you. Heck, I wish that I could experience what you did, as it would surely change my life. You see, I believe in things that I can feel, taste, smell, touch, and understand. The Trinity is one of the major things that does not fall into that catagory for me, amongst many other pieces of Christian doctrine.
I have watched people struggle with faith in God throughout their lives. They try so hard, yet fail in the end. I crunched some numbers recently. There are 1.5 billion Muslims on the planet. There is roughly an equal ammount of Hindus and Buddhists. That right there is half of the worlds population. They say that there are roughly 2 billion "Chistians" on the planet. This, of course, includes many faiths that are not going to Heaven according to Biblical definitions of Christianity, such as Mormons, JW's, and Catholics. That leaves 2 billion people to be accounted for, which are "other" faiths and atheists and agnostics. I last read that 70% of Americans identify with Christianity. We all know, though, that the TRUE number is roughly 20%, if that, per the Bible's definition of "Christianity". We are nowhere near being a "Christian" nation in the U.S. That would mean that, in an optimistic estimate, only 1/14 of the worlds population at any given time in the history of our civilization is going to make it into the "Kingdom of God". That would be roughly 500 million out of 7 billion people. I have a hard time believing that a "loving" God would damn 13/14 of his population to hell. And if this is really true, this is not a God that I feel I can associate with, nor want to spend eternity with. If He was truly omniscient, He would have known at the time of creaton what his creation would divert to, and if he was truly "loving", he would have put a countermeasure in place. Remember, according to the 1.5 billion Muslims on the planet, you're the one going to hell. Now, I'm not trying to stand up for Islam. I'm just stating a point. They were brought onto this earth knowing only Islam. Who is correct by telling them they're wrong. This is all they know. This is just one example.
It seems so simple for "Christians". Jesus is the "Be all and end all" of discussion. There is no other. All other religions are going to eternal damnation except for them, right? I'm sorry, as this just does not "compute" with me. I cannot hold logical debate with my mother, as she ends all discussions with me when she gets flustered. She proves the validity of the Bible with the Bible, and that ends all arguments as far as she is concerned. Once complex issues enter the equation, she ends the conversation, as it is a threat to her belief system.
I could write thirty pages on why I struggle with my faith. Unfortunately, I am a fairly busy individual that regrets he does not have the time to do so. I am not naive enough to believe that I will get a response to this e-mail, but if you choose to respond, I thank you in advance. Any "advice" that you can give before I completely convert to "the dark side" would be appreciated.
Thank You,
Mark (Oregon)
And the following is the response that I got from Bill's wife Annette:
Thanks for writing. Most of your questions are addressed in Bill’s new book, “23 Questions about hell” which comes with a bonus DVD. If you don’t want to spend the $10-15 for the book/DVD, I’m sure you can read it while at Wal-mart or a bookstore. We encourage you to get scriptural information first, before falsely accusing God of being unfair. Mark Twain even said, “We’re all ignorant, it’s just about different things.” Hosea 4:6 says, “My people perish for a lack of knowledge… because they have rejected knowledge (God’s Word).
Annette
One cannot spend 23 minutes or even 23 seconds in hell because hell does not exist. The Bible says so.
The Bible even goes a step further and tells us there is no mystical part of us which naturally survives physical death.
Then the LORD said, "My Spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal" - Genesis 6:3a
When you die you are dead. -end of story-
Which part of DEAD do you not understand Mr. Weise? Google the definition of mortal if you don't know.
Only God is immortal.
“who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light” - 1 Tim 6:16
When the Bible says only God is immortal it speaks truth. Our cemeteries are full of fools who thought they'd live forever. We don't.
The good news of the gospel says that God has chosen to share some of His eternal life with mankind - conditionally.
It's offered to all, but not given to those who reject it.
Those who reject it suffer what the Bible calls the Second Death - total and complete annihilation in the Lake of Fire. Destruction is so complete, we are told, that not even ashes survive to mark the spot where a sinner once lived.
God is not a sociopath that enjoys torturing people. The Bible never even hints at such a perverse nature. It does say God kills, however. He makes an end of things evil.
Therefore one can say with complete and total conviction that nobody, repeat nobody, has even seen or visited a place that doesn't exist - meaning hell.
Bill Wiese is either a con artist or someone with an overactive imagination. (I suspect the former because his reply was a sales pitch complete with price notification.) Nothing of what he has written is true - unless of course the reader peruses his book purely as a work of fiction, which it is.
that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
Last edited by Choir Loft; 02-02-2019 at 02:02 PM..
I think the concept of an eternal torturous hell makes a mockery of god. I mean if a burning place of eternal torture exists then the nazis were more merciful than god. The nazis allowed their victims to die at least, thereby ending the pain of the victims, while the Christian god allows the eternal torture of those who don't accept Jesus. I am not saying all Christians believe in a place of eternal torture or anything, but the eternal torture concept is just plain wrong IMO.
I think the concept of an eternal torturous hell makes a mockery of god. I mean if a burning place of eternal torture exists then the nazis were more merciful than god. The nazis allowed their victims to die at least, thereby ending the pain of the victims, while the Christian god allows the eternal torture of those who don't accept Jesus. I am not saying all Christians believe in a place of eternal torture or anything, but the eternal torture concept is just plain wrong IMO.
Why is it that you speak of only Christianity as the religion with definitive points of exclusion? All religions at some point say that ONLY THEIR religion is the one true path to God. NOT JUST Christianity. So don't single it out.
Why is it that you speak of only Christianity as the religion with definitive points of exclusion? All religions at some point say that ONLY THEIR religion is the one true path to God. NOT JUST Christianity. So don't single it out.
I don't know that that is true. But, even if it is, other religions being exclusionary doesn't excuse Christianity for being so also. It's like the kid who gets in trouble and says, "All the other kids did it, too" thinking that somehow it will lessen his guilt. In other words, it's not a mature response to having a fault pointed out.
I don't know that that is true. But, even if it is, other religions being exclusionary doesn't excuse Christianity for being so also. It's like the kid who gets in trouble and says, "All the other kids did it, too" thinking that somehow it will lessen his guilt. In other words, it's not a mature response to having a fault pointed out.
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Points of exclusion
