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Let alone shaming a brother in Christ to his face in public (Galatians 2:11)...or calling the "Apostles" (there were only 12) followers of Satan (2 Corinthians 11:13), not very loving indeed......
Paul never called the 12 apostles followers of Satan. Gheesh!
Paul was saying there were false apostles coming to them and that they were fraudulent workers being transformed into apostles of Christ.
If you look through the whole new testament you'll find more than 12. Paul was one. Phi 2:25 Epaphroditus, was the Philippian's apostle.
I read all the sections pertaining to the crucifiction in all four Gospels...the place you got your information at and the person who wrote it is missing some patterns of speach like mentioning something as an afterthought or restating something farther along...
Richard can you explain more of what you are saying? Can you give examples?
Paul never called the 12 apostles followers of Satan. Gheesh!
Paul was saying there were false apostles coming to them and that they were fraudulent workers being transformed into apostles of Christ.
If you look through the whole new testament you'll find more than 12. Paul was one. Phi 2:25 Epaphroditus, was the Philippian's apostle.
There were 120 disciples (students of Jesus) Acts 1:15 and ONLY 12 Apostles (disciples who became teachers under the tutelage of Jesus) Revelation 21:14 and 3 witnesses of the transfiguration (Peter, James, and John)...the most intimate companions of Jesus.
Thus, when someone mentions the word "Apostles", he could only mean the 12...they had to be under the tutelage of Jesus, as the main criteria of becoming an Apostle...
jchance3, thanks for the link. I never knew there was a link to what I was saying.
I shared this information about Christ being crucified with 4 with my earthly, fleshly family via email and they called me names, and tore into me like you wouldn't believe. They all go to different churches but they just could not handle 4 being crucified with Christ. I find that so amazing how something so seemingly insignificant as this would bring out so much ire in them toward me! One told me I can go to hell. I was told I was deceiving the "true" Christians which meant he did not believe I was a true Christian. I was told I was twisting God's word. etc. etc.
LOL ...
What does it matter whether or not there where two or four or two hundred and four robbers and or malefactors crucified with Christ? How does that effect doctrine in any way shape or form?
I understand your argument and i find it very compelling ... I just cant figure out why someone would get upset about it.
My oldest brother is the same way, he always wants to talk about what he believes the scriptures teach and what he has learned recently from his "pastor-teacher", and he always wants to sit on his high horse and preach to me and the rest of my family about why this and why that because we do this or because we dont do that, and he demands that we listen to what he has to say ... but the moment i disagree with him and tell him what i believe he fly's into a rage and tells me i'm an heretic and rebellious and teaching false doctrine etc. , but when it comes to quoting scriptures and debating the facts he refuses to listen to anything i have to say and simply closes off and looks down his nose and enters into his "holier than thou" Mr. religiosity mode ...
Its really sad especially when i catch him contradicting himself or the scriptures and then he really goes irate and says I'm twisting his words, yet he cant say anything to deny it.
Hes not even willing to read the bible any more by himself. He will only read the bible while he listens to his pastor-teacher on audio cd explain it word by word. He has been reading the letter of Romans now for over a year and has not yet gotten past Romans chapter 5 ...
Very sad state of affairs where he is concerned spiritually ... But he's my brother and i have to be patient with him and look past his religious programming and trust God that eventually he will mature enough to start being able to think for himself someday.
Paul was an apostle. That makes 13. Epaphroditus was also an apostle. That makes 14.
Well, Matthias was elected by the drawing of straws and not by the election of Christ, so Paul who was elected by Christ was really the 12th apostle after the death of Judas. And Epaphroditus was the delegate of the Christian community at Philippi, and a minister of the apostle Paul, not really an apostle.
Well, Matthias was elected by the drawing of straws and not by the election of Christ, so Paul who was elected by Christ was really the 12th apostle after the death of Judas. And Epaphroditus was the delegate of the Christian community at Philippi, and a minister of the apostle Paul, not really an apostle.
Peace ...
Matthias was one of the disciples...the main criteria of being an Apostle...Paul was not...
Revelation 21:14 And the wall of the city had 12 foundations, and in them the names of the 12 apostles of the Lamb(Jesus Christ!).
Matthias was one of the disciples...the main criteria of being an Apostle...Paul was not...
Revelation 21:14 And the wall of the city had 12 foundations, and in them the names of the 12 apostles of the Lamb(Jesus Christ!).
Well, according to the New Testament, Paul was a disciple of the resurrected Christ. Everything he learned was from Christ and not from the apostles, and he even said of himself that he was the chief apostle. And Peter consented to his authority when he was rebuked by Paul for preferring the circumcision and teaching the gentiles to observe the Law.
Peace ...
Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 09-30-2010 at 04:06 PM..
Right...it was his practice to LIE FOR JESUS...which doesn't give him much credibility in my book. One shouldn't have to lie or put on a false show to attract believers....buy hey....it's done every day and there are plenty of false believers to show for it.
I am straight up...I see where man has twisted things...most people that study the scriptures are looking for the warm fuzzy...I believe Christ existed and i have faith...but, not just because the scriptures say so...but, i have read plenty of secular accounts...Even the Jews who did not believe that He was the Messiah...had a negative account of Him...If He never existed i do not see the Jews even bothering with it or they would deny that He ever existed...their account avers His existence, why else would they record a negative account of Him?...
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