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What this boils down to is the Problem of Evil in the world in relationship to believing in a benevolent God. This has always been the main stumbling block to having faith that goodness and mercy will ultimately prevail over the universe.
In this lifetime, each person must decide what he/she believes and try to get through this world to the best of his/her ability. Each person must decide what things are true. Clearly, most people believe that there is such a thing as evil - otherwise, why would even the atheists complain about injustice, disease, death, pain, etc... Regardless of labels, I think most reasonable people would agree that avoiding negativity (hatred, murder, strife, etc.) is PROGRESSIVE for humanity and the best CHOICE for all involved. We are obviously all connected by our humanity and the fact that we must share the same planet. With that in mind, if you consider yourself to be the god of your own life, you owe it to yourself and your fellow humans to at least strive to be as GOOD as you think God should/would be if he/she existed.
If God is in control and it all will work out for the best; then praying and having faith in God to change the outcome of a situation is a total wast of time.
I think it is helpful to realize that we are to pray that His will be done, not ours. We don't pray to 'get our way' or 'change God's mind' - but we pray in order to grow in relationship with God and learn to trust Him.
If we realize God is in control of all things (even the bad stuff) then we need to have faith that He we will work things out for the benefit of all.
What this boils down to is the Problem of Evil in the world in relationship to believing in a benevolent God. This has always been the main stumbling block to having faith that goodness and mercy will ultimately prevail over the universe.
In this lifetime, each person must decide what he/she believes and try to get through this world to the best of his/her ability. Each person must decide what things are true. Clearly, most people believe that there is such a thing as evil - otherwise, why would even the atheists complain about injustice, disease, death, pain, etc... Regardless of labels, I think most reasonable people would agree that avoiding negativity (hatred, murder, strife, etc.) is PROGRESSIVE for humanity and the best CHOICE for all involved. We are obviously all connected by our humanity and the fact that we must share the same planet. With that in mind, if you consider yourself to be the god of your own life, you owe it to yourself and your fellow humans to at least strive to be as GOOD as you think God should/would be if he/she existed.
Indeed the problem of evil ties into this, but that wasn't the intent of my OP.
My main point is this:
1. God exists
2. God is all-powerful and altruistic (all good)
Therefore:
3. God must be in complete control of all things
4. Any bad that happens, God could have stopped, but did not, so there must be a purpose for it
Furthermore:
5. Any bad that happens (no matter how bad we perceive it to be) will be worked into a greater good - a good that could not have been achieved if the bad had not been allowed to happen
And:
6. When all is said and done, God will have worked all things out for the maximum benefit of all (since He is in control of all things).
This seems logical to me given the base assumptions. And it should give us comfort. God will work things out for the best. Imagine the best thing that could happen. God can achieve that. He is in control!
Before anyone else wants to jump all over me let me say this is JMHO!
Jump, jump jump!!! I'll be the devils advocate here and say that is a bunch of Moderator cut: edit and it doesn't explain anything.....why does God allow all these bad things to happen? Your explanation is not good enough. YOur logic is not good enough.
Jump, jump jump!!! I'll be the devils advocate here and say that is a bunch of Moderator cut: orphaned and it doesn't explain anything.....why does God allow all these bad things to happen? Your explanation is not good enough. YOur logic is not good enough.
LOL I was just getting geared up to reply to all the atheists and then their posts went *poof*...
Anyway let me break it down even simpler.
Given:
1. God exists
2. God is good
3. God is all-powerful
He must be in control. So the bad things happen only because God allows them or intends them to happen. And since God is good, they must happen for a good reason.
I believe this is irrefutable. The logic is sound as I see it.
So to your question "why does God allow all these bad things to happen"? Like I said it must be for a good reason. Some possibilities:
1. In order to know goodness we must also understand badness for contrast. So if there is no badness, there can be no understanding of goodness.
2. In order to gain any sort of virtue, one must be able to overcome evil. So if there is no evil, no virtue can be gained.
This is all tied into learning about LOVE, experiencing LOVE, and becoming LOVE - the very image of God (God is Love).
I believe this is how God is working things out for the best - we are all being made into His image. I believe this is going to take time - many ages - but when He is finished - it will be amazing.
IMHO but that is what I believe scripture is saying.
He must be in control. So the bad things happen only because God allows them or intends them to happen. And since God is good, they must happen for a good reason.
i know what you mean legoman, and so did this guy:
Genesis 50:19 And Joseph said unto them, Fear not: for am I in the place of God? 20 But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.
is there really any need to expand on these two verses??
Seems to me it says enough without comment, but i am sure someone from the roast and toast crowd will tell us it doesn't mean what it says
If God is in control and it all will work out for the best; then praying and having faith in God to change the outcome of a situation is a total wast of time.
Indeed the problem of evil ties into this, but that wasn't the intent of my OP.
My main point is this:
1. God exists
2. God is all-powerful and altruistic (all good)
Therefore:
3. God must be in complete control of all things
4. Any bad that happens, God could have stopped, but did not, so there must be a purpose for it
Furthermore:
5. Any bad that happens (no matter how bad we perceive it to be) will be worked into a greater good - a good that could not have been achieved if the bad had not been allowed to happen
And:
6. When all is said and done, God will have worked all things out for the maximum benefit of all (since He is in control of all things).
This seems logical to me given the base assumptions. And it should give us comfort. God will work things out for the best. Imagine the best thing that could happen. God can achieve that. He is in control!
Before anyone else wants to jump all over me let me say this is JMHO!
Wonderful post, Legoman! I'll continue below..
Quote:
Originally Posted by boanerges
from legoman
i know what you mean legoman, and so did this guy:
Genesis 50:19 And Joseph said unto them, Fear not: for am I in the place of God? 20 But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.
is there really any need to expand on these two verses??
I was just reading the same verses this morning! Joseph is symbolic of Christ Jesus, the One who was betrayed by his brothers but used by God to bring Life to all. Joseph in us is the same as Christ in us, they are the same Spirit.
Indeed, we are to present our bodies to Him for sacrifice. Our bodies were made by Him, and we are His, no matter who we are. No matter what He may cause us to go through, He is our Shepherd, our fortress, our shield, our protection, our Life. What He allows us to go through, whether trials or being abandoned, or whatever-- we are still His, and our Joy is simply trusting Him in it, that He will bring it all to a good end!
We do have some freedom to choose whether to feed on the things of the world, or to feed on God. The first brings death, the second brings Life. We either serve the serpent in us, or God in us. But when we wait for Him to raise us up, He bruises the serpent's head within us, and we are restored and find communion with Him.
Because He is the God of all wisdom, we can say with confidence that everything He does is "for the most good, for the most people, for the longest time".
Because He makes no mistakes, there is no wasted motions; as said earlier, even those dark blights on history's resume were, are and will give birth to His perfect plan.
So many times in our life are an opportunity to give Him praise because He is working beautiful things in us, but we sadly don't see it and instead "blame" Him for bad things - but they're not bad to Him, because He sees the end from the beginning.
All you need to do is ask. And have the faith of a child.
The toughest times in my life occurred when I turned away from God.
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