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Pssst....does anybody know HOW I can add the above amendment to the OP so it can be read there??
Wish I could help you with that Joe.
But here is quite a comprehesive examination of the subject, in case anyone is interested in persuing it, with all of its many ramifications, in greater detail. I found it very interesting and thought provoking.
Good question!! Let see if this can answer your question....
I have recently added this to my "Challenge" article. It will answer you question of...
"Where would these verses fit within your thinkology?"
Read it, and then YOU "TELL me what I am thinking".
"If the best WORD that you can come up with to describe what you are THINKING is the word “eternity”, why, pray tell, are you NOT using that SAME word to CONVEY to others what you are THINKING?????? (which is ‘eternity’) I would REALLY like an answer to that."
Gal 1:5……“ageS of the ageS”…….“ageS contrasting ageS”……..“PLURAL/PLURAL”
If "age" can not \ isn't understood as "eternal" then how long will a person recieve the "manifold" in the "coming age" the life age during if its not eternal?
Jesus' answer: Luke 18:29-30
YTL: he said to them, `Verily I say to you
NIV: “I tell you the truth,” Jesus said to them,
KJV: And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you
YLT: that there is not one who left house, or parents, or brothers, or wife, or children, for the sake of the reign of God,
NIV: “no one who has left home or wife or brothers or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God
KJV: There is no man that hath left house, or parents, or brethren, or wife, or children, for the kingdom of God's sake,
YLT:who may not receive back manifold more in this time, and in the coming age, life age-during
NIV:will fail to receive many times as much in this age and, in the age to come, eternal life.” KJV: Who shall not receive manifold more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting.
"the coming age, the life age during" when does that occur and for how long does it last if it's not eternal?
Excellent analysis. "For ever" is a mistranslation in the King James Bible. In the OT, it comes from the Hebrew word "olam," and in the NT from the Greek word "aion." The correct translation is an age or a period of time as seen in Young's Literal translation:
Revelation 20:10 – and the Devil, who is leading them astray, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where [are] the beast and the false prophet, and they shall be tormented day and nigh – to the ages of the ages (YLT)
The reason for this mistranslation dates back to when the King James Bible was written in 1604-1611 by the Church of England. Instead of translating the Bible from the original Greek and Hebrew, they used Jerome's Latin Vulgate. Therefore, many words are mistranslated. Today, most English translations come from the King James which makes matters worse. For more on this, see my articles on for ever: For Ever and the lake of fire: Lake of Fire God Bless.
Excellent analysis. "For ever" is a mistranslation in the King James Bible. In the OT, it comes from the Hebrew word "olam," and in the NT from the Greek word "aion." The correct translation is an age or a period of time as seen in Young's Literal translation:
Revelation 20:10 – and the Devil, who is leading them astray, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where [are] the beast and the false prophet, and they shall be tormented day and nigh – to the ages of the ages (YLT)
The reason for this mistranslation dates back to when the King James Bible was written in 1604-1611 by the Church of England. Instead of translating the Bible from the original Greek and Hebrew, they used Jerome's Latin Vulgate. Therefore, many words are mistranslated. Today, most English translations come from the King James which makes matters worse. For more on this, see my articles on for ever: For Ever and the lake of fire: Lake of Fire God Bless.
Thank you for your links Jaguar.
From a quick scanning of both articles I can't tell if you are a universalist or an annihilationist.
And that would be because we agree with what Eusebius is saying, and that what he is saying isnot an insult but instead is the TRUTH.
Insults, arrogance and contempt seem go hand in hand with UR, and they prove it on daily bases. Sadly they don't even realize when they are being rude.
Do you call a retard a retard in their face, just because it is the TRUTH ? If someone is ugly, so you call them ugly just because it is the TRUTH? What you are saying is nothing but your personal opinion, not the TRUTH, but even if it was true, it would still be rude to call someone a blasphemer. Do you not see this ?
Who are you to criticize and judge other people's faith, by calling them blasphemers when they do agree with your view? Is this the love you keep talking about? Is this what Jesus taught? No, your attitude is the opposite of love, and the opposite of what Jesus taught.
This is what I call the "UR love", and I don't want any part of it. Thanks, but no thanks. It is telling that practically all believers is UR share the same attitude.
Insults, arrogance and contempt seem go hand in hand with UR, and they prove it on daily bases. Sadly they don't even realize when they are being rude.
Do you call a retard a retard in their face, just because it is the TRUTH ? If someone is ugly, so you call them ugly just because it is the TRUTH? What you are saying is nothing but your personal opinion, not the TRUTH, but even if it was true, it would still be rude to call someone a blasphemer. Do you not see this ?
Who are you to criticize and judge other people's faith, by calling them blasphemers when they do agree with your view? Is this the love you keep talking about? Is this what Jesus taught? No, your attitude is the opposite of love, and the opposite of what Jesus taught.
This is what I call the "UR love", and I don't want any part of it. Thanks, but no thanks. It is telling that practically all believers is UR share the same attitude.
A leopard doesn't change it spots, nor do false teachers and thoase who follow them. It doesn't surprise me that athesists and UR'ers seemingly have no problem with one another.
1 Timothy 6:2-4 If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about wordsthat result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions
What you are saying is nothing but your personal opinion, not the TRUTH, but even if it was true, it would still be rude to call someone a blasphemer. Do you not see this ?
I did not mean to say that you are a blasphemer.
Instead I mean to say that the doctrine of ET certainly is a blasphemy.
I realize that you temporarily cannot believe that.
But sooner or later I am confident that you will.
Insults, arrogance and contempt seem go hand in hand with UR, and they prove it on daily bases. Sadly they don't even realize when they are being rude. .
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin
1 Timothy 6:2-4 If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions
Is it time to bring up old posts you guys?
The same could easily be said of people on all sides.
We have one of the “challenged” who has obviously done MUCH studying on this “Challenge” and has ACTUALLY found his PERFECT scholar. It is clear that he knows that the “CHALLENGE” is speaking of 2 different languages when he states this…..
“That in any language is the lie from Satan.”
And he really puts this Scholar of his on a VERY high pedestal, for he keeps telling us how GREAT he is even “taunting” us with this FACT. He is rubbing it in our faces I tell you, look First he tells us this.….
“The day of proof will come unexpectedly and we shall see if your demand for proof is satisfied.”
Wow! Sorry, but we don’t have a chance here guys, for we ain’t even gonna see this one coming!! We wont even know WHEN, for he BOASTs this THREE times when he said….
“…. sooner or later it will become apparent”
“…. sooner or later it will become apparent”
“…. sooner or later it will become apparent”
Ladies and Gentlemen, if that ain’t THREE witnesses coming out of the SAME mouth, then I don’t know what is. Wow!...He obviously knows what he is talking about here, because he is practically GUARANTEEING that OUR EYES will be OPENED when this scholar appears…..
“The proof your wanting will come soon enough, and then we shall see”
Yep! We asked for it,…. and Boy is he gonna give it to us…
“You wanted proof..you wanted names ... you got it.”
“... sooner or later it will become apparent when you see Jesus as Judge”
“Who Him?” Jesus? YOUR savior? OUR savior? Are you telling me that you can find NOONE else but Jesus?
“I don't have to. Jesus' day will come when he will prove it”
Ok then. Jesus is your man then, thats if you really can NOT find anyone else.
“Jesus is the ultimate scholar. But since you don't believe him,….”
Are you TELLING us that we dont really BELIEVE Jesus and what He says?? You obviously dont, because repeatedly ask us this all the time....
“Did God really say”??????
Let us get this straight. Are YOU challenging US, that WE do NOT believe what Jesus says?? Sure sounds like it. On to the Challenge then...shall we.
The Challenge
In RESPECTS to the RULES set forth (and to YOU), The Challenge SPECIFICALLY states that you are to provide, at the very least, ONE Scholar….to which you have done here….
The Scholar: Jesus Christ
…….who DIS-AGREES to the “Greek Forms Column”,
And you claim He does, for He is YOUR proof, right?
Well the problem is that, how pray-tell, are we gonna KNOW if Jesus DISAGREES with US? Well, here’s a thought,………..lets just ASK Him then, shall we…..let us ask him what He "really said"....
“Hey Jesus, I have Two questions for you,……First one is……did you REALLY SPEAK a SINGULAR NOUN here……”
Mat 21:19…..”forever”…….
……and did you REALLY SPEAK a PLURAL NOUN here,......
Mat 6:13……..”forever”……..
....because WHOEVER penned these verses on paper say that you DID....”
Now, KNOW what Jesus's answer was, but we now ask the “challenged” who brought this GREAT Scholar to us..
“Can You TELL me what Jesus said???”
We have done BETTER then you have asked of us sir. YOU told us to….
“Gather up as many as you can..maybe mob rule will intimidate…”
….but we have GATHERED ALL of them, because now YOUR SCHOLAR, like ALL the rest of the MOB, are ALL standing on OUR side.
*** STOP THE PRESSES…..STOP THE PRESSES ***
*** THIS JUST IN ***
*** The Winner has been STRIPPED of his crown, and the CROWN will be given to another who is worthy, and he will have a NEW name and a NEW mind ***
Don’t Threat though!!....You STILL have a chance!!.....The Challenge still stands!!....Because there are MANY MORE scholars who haven’t even been BORN YET!!
**Secret Ad**(Pssst…SECRET AD….”the crown is, indeed, his, but he just don’t KNOW it yet”)
On a personal note: I know some may be reading these words of mine and thinking. Joe seems pretty PROUD of himself….eh. He is being pretty Arrogant about this. And to these things, some may be thinking something like “he will get his dues one day, God will PUT him in his place”.
Dear friend, Christ tells me to SHOW you your blindness. Nobody likes to be TOLD they are blind, or wrong. My words may hurt or even BURN you inside. I am simply PROVOKING you to THINK…..THINK….THINK……for yourself.
I am saying this from the bottom of my heart (I really am)…..I LOVE YOU!! My earthly child does NOT like to be SPANKED, and at that time he probably thinks I do NOT love him. But I do, I REALLY REALLY do. When the FATHER WANTS his child to COME OVER HERE…..then ‘by golly’ that child is going to COME, even if that FATHER has to DRAG that kid….whining, crying, kicking, screaming, gnashing of the teeth…….!!
It is true as you say my friend...“he will get his DUES one day, God will PUT him in his place”.
And that child's PLACE is WITH HIS FATHER. Praise the Lord!!
I LOVE YOU
WE LOVE YOU
HE LOVES ALL of US.
Blessing
Joe
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There is no greater blasphemy than et
For Ever
Annihilation versus universal salvation
