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Your refusal to accept "THE CHALLENGE" just keeps on reinforcing the truth of God's plan for the ages of time.
ETers are not willing to even try to find an ET Greek scholar that will try to disprove the truth of the Greek form column.
Let's see how would you phrase it...
I quoted the one greek scholar that you oppose ..... Jesus.
Not that I'm claiming you oppose Jesus, just that UR theology opposes Jesus. Someday you will understand that you are blasphemous. But I'll stop calling you blasphemous and say that UR is blasphemous.
That's because you haven't proved one Greek scholar that teaches UR is correct and that's why I agree with Finn_Jaber because he witness to the TRUTH.
The fact that UR's oppose John 3:36 proves that Jesus is my trump card.
We assert that the Greek form column is correct.
We also assert that no one can prove that it is not.
That is why we believe that the words "forever" and "forever and ever" should never, ever have been used to translate aionion.
……………………..ENGLISH…………………………....Greek Form
Mat 21:19……….“forever”……………………………“singular”
Mat 6:13………….“forever”…………………………..“PLURAL”
Heb 1:8……………“forever and ever”…………….“singular/singular”
Gal 1:5…………….“forever and ever”…………….“PLURAL/PLURAL”
Dan 7:18 LXX …“forever and ever”……………..“singular/PLURAL” in LXX
Eph 3:21………….“world without end”……………“singular/PLURAL”
The fact that UR's oppose John 3:36 proves that Jesus is my trump card.
I believe God will save all mankind and embrace John 3:36. John 3:36 does not contradict 1 Timothy 2:4-6 or 4:10 or Romans 5:18,19 or 1 Corinthians 15:22-28 or Colossians 1:20 or Philippians 2:8-11 etc. etc. Rather it works with these verses.
Why would we oppose this:
Joh 3:36 He who is believing in the Son has life eonian, yet he who is
stubborn as to the Son shall not be seeing life, but the indignation of God
is remaining on him."
"he who is stubborn as to the Son shall not be seeing life [eonian]. But why would they be stubborn? Romans 11:32 says the reason is that God locked them up in stubbornness.
And "No one can come to Me if the Father is not drawing him."
So if eternal torment is true and God's sovereignty over who believes and who does not believe is true (and He sovereignty is true) then we have a most malign God who doesn't even give people a chance to believe because he supposedly created an eternal torture hell chamber and created billions of people just for the purpose of torturing them eternally. Not quite the God I could give my love to. Would you?
I have a feeling that some ETers may have already checked this out and found out we URs right. If they have, it is bound to begin to be disturbing their theoligical point of view.
We assert that the Greek form column is correct.
We also assert that no one can prove that it is not.
That is why we believe that the words "forever" and "forever and ever" should never, ever have been used to translate aionion.
……………………..ENGLISH…………………………....Greek Form
Mat 21:19……….“forever”……………………………“singular”
Mat 6:13………….“forever”…………………………..“PLURAL”
Heb 1:8……………“forever and ever”…………….“singular/singular”
Gal 1:5…………….“forever and ever”…………….“PLURAL/PLURAL”
Dan 7:18 LXX …“forever and ever”……………..“singular/PLURAL” in LXX
Eph 3:21………….“world without end”……………“singular/PLURAL”
Mat 21:19 "...may fruit be coming of you for the eon." singular for ever
Matt.6:13 does not uses aionas (aion in the plural form) so is a mistake.
Luk 1:33 His father, and He shall reign over the house of Jacob for the eons." plural for ever
Heb 1:8 Yet to the Son: "Thy throne, O God, is for the eon of the eon," singular/singular for ever and ever.
Galatians 1:5 CLV to Whom be glory for the eons of the eons. Amen! plural/plural For ever and ever.
Dan 7:18 Yet the saints of the supremacies shall receive the kingdom and they will safeguard the kingdom unto the eon, even unto the eon of the eons." singular/plural For ever and ever.
Eph 3:21 to Him be the glory in the ecclesia and in Christ Jesus for all the generations of the eon of the eons! Amen! singular/plural For ever and ever
1 Chronicles 28:9 YLT And thou, Solomon, my son, know the God of thy father, and serve Him with a perfect heart, and with a willing mind, for all hearts is Jehovah seeking, and every imagination of the thoughts He is understanding; if thou dost seek Him, He is found of thee, and if thou dost forsake Him, He casteth thee off for ever.
" and if thou dost forsake Him, He casteth thee off for ever. "
1 Chronicles 28:9 YLT
And thou, Solomon, my son, know the God of thy father, and serve Him with a perfect heart, and with a willing mind, for all hearts is Jehovah seeking, and every imagination of the thoughts He is understanding; if thou dost seek Him, He is found of thee, and if thou dost forsake Him, He casteth thee off for ever.
" and if thou dost forsake Him, He casteth thee off for ever. "
Mat 21:19 "...may fruit be coming of you for the eon." singular for ever
Matt.6:13 does not uses aionas (aion in the plural form) so is a mistake.
Luk 1:33 His father, and He shall reign over the house of Jacob for the eons." plural for ever
Heb 1:8 Yet to the Son: "Thy throne, O God, is for the eon of the eon," singular/singular for ever and ever.
Galatians 1:5 CLV to Whom be glory for the eons of the eons. Amen! plural/plural For ever and ever.
Dan 7:18 Yet the saints of the supremacies shall receive the kingdom and they will safeguard the kingdom unto the eon, even unto the eon of the eons." singular/plural For ever and ever.
Eph 3:21 to Him be the glory in the ecclesia and in Christ Jesus for all the generations of the eon of the eons! Amen! singular/plural For ever and ever
1 Chronicles 28:9 YLT
And thou, Solomon, my son, know the God of thy father, and serve Him with a perfect heart, and with a willing mind, for all hearts is Jehovah seeking, and every imagination of the thoughts He is understanding; if thou dost seek Him, He is found of thee, and if thou dost forsake Him, He casteth thee off for ever.
" and if thou dost forsake Him, He casteth thee off for ever. "
twin.spin, on the thread that you started specifically about this verse, Eusebius showed that Robert Young's choice of the use of "for ever" here was optional. The word did not necessarliy have to be translated "for ever."
This shows to me that Robert Young was not translating according to theological bias.
As explained by Eusebius, the word "ad" used here is not the Hebrew word olam, and "ad" does not necessarily mean "for ever."
IMO Young's use of "for ever" here strengthens the UR case about his consitent translation of olam (Hebrew) and aionios (Greek) as limited periods of time.
Last edited by rodgertutt; 12-06-2010 at 10:16 AM..
Reason: highlighting
twin.spin, on the thread that you started specifically about this verse, Eusebius showed that Robert Young's choice of the use of "for ever" here was optional. The word did not necessarliy have to be translated "for ever."
This shows to me that Robert Young was not translating according to theological bias.
As explained by Eusebius, the word "ad" used here is not the Hebrew word olam, and "ad" does not necessarily mean "for ever."
IMO Young's use of "for ever" here strengthens the UR case about his consitent translation of olam (Hebrew) and aionios (Greek) as limited periods of time.
rodgertutt,
Thankfully you and others have the discretion to know when Robert Young was not translating according to theological bias.
or .....
You and others need to have scriptures read a certian way to fit an incorrect theological bias.
But in either case all that it proves is that as long as it fits Mr Rodgers Neighborehood UR theological conclusion, no number greek geek scholars will be acceptable in your opinion. Which means quite frankly you believe what you want to or not for no other reason other than pride and not based on the truth as scripture teaches in context.
The burden is on you to either conform to the truth; 1 Chronicles 28:9 is the truth and all other scriptures must agree with themselves [John 10:35—and the Scripture cannot be broken—]
There are two burdens you will have to bear:
The burden is for you to conform your theology to scripture, not the other way around.
Me and others who hold to the truth will continually proclaim the truth despite it's unpopularity of the message. There is a consequence for rejecting God .. which is for ever (eternal) 1 Chronicles 28:9
FYI...Eusebius is on my ignore list, I don't see (or care) what is said.
FYI...Eusebius is on my ignore list, I don't see (or care) what is said.
Yes, that is very clear to us twin.spin.
But for those who do care what is said.
Mat 21:19 "...may fruit be coming of you for the eon." singular for ever
Matt.6:13 does not uses aionas (aion in the plural form) so is a mistake.
Luk 1:33 His father, and He shall reign over the house of Jacob for the eons." plural for ever
Heb 1:8 Yet to the Son: "Thy throne, O God, is for the eon of the eon," singular/singular for ever and ever.
Galatians 1:5 CLV to Whom be glory for the eons of the eons. Amen! plural/plural For ever and ever.
Dan 7:18 Yet the saints of the supremacies shall receive the kingdom and they will safeguard the kingdom unto the eon, even unto the eon of the eons." singular/plural For ever and ever.
Eph 3:21 to Him be the glory in the ecclesia and in Christ Jesus for all the generations of the eon of the eons! Amen! singular/plural For ever and ever
If you are not blind you should see the problem.
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God’s plan for the ages of time
1 Chronicles 28:9 YLT
