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It says God desires it, but you and I both know a lot of people reject His invitation. I don't want to start going in circles here, so I will leave it at that.
I think we just showed that it doesn't mean merely desires. After all, the word is in the INDICATIVE mood. Besides even if it said that God desired to save all men, we still know from so many other verses that God gets what He desires.
It says God desires it, but you and I both know a lot of people reject His invitation.
I don't want to start going in circles here, so I will leave it at that.
My children have said, "beware of the wrath of dad."
Yet, they still live because it was a momentary affliction based on the element of correction.
Although according to you and many others; I should make them suffer for the rest of their lives?
All that was necessary for their correction was to change the tone of my voice (there was no further need of punishment).
Do you hear the tone of his voice, or are you in need of further correction? Just something for you to think about.
I think we just showed that it doesn't mean merely desires. After all, the word is in the INDICATIVE mood. Besides even if it said that God desired to save all men, we still know from so many other verses that God gets what He desires.
Apparently that is not always true. God will not force you into worshipping Him, because He wants us to love Him out of our own free will.
Luke 13:34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones God's messengers! How often I have wanted to gather your children together as a hen protects her chicks beneath her wings, but you wouldn't let me.
Apparently that is not always true. God will not force you into worshipping Him, because He wants us to love Him out of our own free will.
Luke 13:34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones God's messengers! How often I have wanted to gather your children together as a hen protects her chicks beneath her wings, but you wouldn't let me.
Finn_Jarber, this thread is about 1 Tim 2:4 and shown that the verse means God WILL save all men. Nothing so far has been presented to show that the verse means otherwise.
Finn_Jarber, this thread is about 1 Tim 2:4 and shown that the verse means God WILL save all men. Nothing so far has been presented to show that the verse means otherwise.
I was replying to your post where you said God always gets what He wants/desires, and I showed you that it is not always true. Jesus said He had wanted to gather Israel many times, but he could not, because the Jews refused to be gathered. The truth remains that the word means that God "desires", "wants", "wishes" all men to be saved, but obviously you will not accept this truth, or the fact that God will not force anyone into worshipping Him.
I was replying to your post where you said God always gets what He wants/desires, and I showed you that it is not always true. Jesus said He had wanted to gather Israel many times, but he could not, because the Jews refused to be gathered. The truth remains that the word means that God "desires", "wants", "wishes" all men to be saved, but obviously you will not accept this truth, or the fact that God will not force anyone into worshipping Him.
So what do you say about all those verses that show that He does get what He desires?
So what do you say about all those verses that show that He does get what He desires?
Ask yourself these questions:
- Does God desire that we worship only Him, and not other Gods?
- Does God desire that we do not worship idols?
- Does God desire that we do not say His name in vain?
- Does God desire that we honor our parents?
- Does God desire that we do not murder?
- Does God desire that we do not steal?
the list is endless
Now ask yourself again if God always gets His desire? The answer is an obvious NO, because all of the above have been violated millions of times.
God revealed his desires to Moses, and later to many others including Paul. One of the revealed desires is that all men would believe in Jesus and come to Him and be saved. However, God knows the heart of men, and he knew people would go against his desire when it came to 10 commandments and He knows many will go against His desire to be saved.
God told Ezekiel ""Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked, declares the Lord GOD, and not rather that he should turn from his way and live?"
Clearly God wanted the people to turn away from their wickedness, and come His way, but THEY DID NOT. They went against God's desire.
And He says people SHOULD repent: Acts 17:30 "God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent..."
Yet, you and I both know that millions of people go against God's desire and do NOT repent. God allows things to happen which He would prefer to not happen.
These are God's commandments, and it is obvious He wants people to obey them, but we see it every day that God allows people to go against His desire. God is not exersicing his authority and power to force anyone into salvation any more than He is forcing us to follow His other commandments. When God created the world he used his WILL, His authority and everything he desired, happened, but in this case he has reveled his desire regarding the behaviour or men, and He will not use his authority to make it happen. He simply revealed His desire and then left it to man to follow his desire, or not. It is His permissive desire.
- Does God desire that we worship only Him, and not other Gods?
- Does God desire that we do not worship idols?
- Does God desire that we do not say His name in vain?
- Does God desire that we honor our parents?
- Does God desire that we do not murder?
- Does God desire that we do not steal?
the list is endless
Now ask yourself again if God always gets His desire? The answer is an obvious NO, because all of the above have been violated millions of times.
God revealed his desires to Moses, and later to many others including Paul. One of the revealed desires is that all men would believe in Jesus and come to Him and be saved. However, God knows the heart of men, and he knew people would go against his desire when it came to 10 commandments and He knows many will go against His desire to be saved.
God told Ezekiel ""Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked, declares the Lord GOD, and not rather that he should turn from his way and live?"
Clearly God wanted the people to turn away from their wickedness, and come His way, but THEY DID NOT. They went against God's desire.
And He says people SHOULD repent: Acts 17:30 "God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent..."
Yet, you and I both know that millions of people go against God's desire and do NOT repent. God allows things to happen which He would prefer to not happen.
These are God's commandments, and it is obvious He wants people to obey them, but we see it every day that God allows people to go against His desire. God is not exersicing his authority and power to force anyone into salvation any more than He is forcing us to follow His other commandments. When God created the world he used his WILL, His authority and everything he desired, happened, but in this case he has reveled his desire regarding the behaviour or men, and He will not use his authority to make it happen. He simply revealed His desire and then left it to man to follow his desire, or not. It is His permissive desire.
Fin_Jarber, I have the clear word of the scriptures that says He gets what He desires. I asked you what you think about all those scriptures that show that He gets what He desires? So what say you?
Did He, or did He not desire that people obey the 10 commandments?
Obviously YES.
Did He get His desire?
Obviously NO.
Are you trying to avoid this obvious truth?
Obviously YES.
Again, Finn_Jarber, what about ALL those verses that says that God gets what He desires?
By your responses, should I suppose that I know about those verses and that you dont?
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