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Old 12-14-2010, 02:17 PM
 
63,354 posts, read 39,631,847 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ancient warrior View Post
RESPONSE:

What you really mean is that I don't agree with you when you are in error,right?

Instead, I believe:

"Test everything, hold fast to that which is true," (reject error). Paul

"Now that I am a man I have put away the things of a child." Paul

"You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free." John

Does that make me "anit-Christ"?
If I have misread you and you are a believer in Christ . . . I apologize. But so many of your posts seem like attempts to undermine belief in Christ.
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Old 12-14-2010, 05:37 PM
 
Location: Oregon
3,066 posts, read 3,699,867 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
If I have misread you and you are a believer in Christ . . . I apologize. But so many of your posts seem like attempts to undermine belief in Christ.
RESPONSE:

I'm just separating fact, fiction, and contradiction in Christianity.
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Old 12-14-2010, 06:26 PM
 
Location: Philippines
460 posts, read 590,723 times
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From my pickle barrel:

Scripture Alone.

Okay. But to put everything into perspective, we have to look at the form of literature the OT is composed of, which is very respective to the other compositions of the same time period. The OT as we have it today was believed to have been composed in the 7th Century b.c., which was born out of the religious and political revolution taking place within the sole surviving state of Judah. These writings had a message: get on the new bandwagon of our form of monotheism and back the Messiah King (at the time).

The OT writings are no different from other period pieces of the times, such as the Iliad, Odysses stories, and the like.

Imagine the headaches invovled in trying to convert Shakespeare into modern English. It is much harder to translate the old forms of literature into something that makes sense in the modern world.

My OT professor enjoyed pointing out all of the jokes and insults that fill the OT. I would never have caught them if he had not pointed them out. But then again, I was not immersed in the Jewish thought processes or understood exactly what the nature of the literature is in and of itself.

My Message of the Prophets professor pointed out that many of the passages in the minor prophets were encoded battle messages. Yet, we read them today as if they have some kind of prophetic message and validity.

When many theologians first start out trying to understand what the Bible is "saying," they take the Bible to be literal. In other words, there actually was a Moses, an Abraham, et al. They also grapple with the dichotomy of having God promise something on one hand and then take it away with the other hand. They approach the "Good Book" as something more than it is: a real spiritual communication between the nether (supernatural) world of heaven and the very earthy, materialistic world of the Earth. They do not realize that it were spiritual people who were encouching the very humanistic nature of mankind into their stories, the follies and "clay feet" of humanity juxtaposed against what "should be." The God of the OT is merely a character in these morality plays, and should not be taken as literally THE GOD.

Another form of exegesis is collecting all the instances of a particular word, especially when this particular word has many possible meanings. Then, after careful examination of that word, a determination is made for its meaning. Unfortunately, some words are used rarely (like "inspiration," which is used only once in the NT), and so interpretations are going to vary.

One yellow-flag of caution has to be observed with "Scripture Alone," and that is accepting extra-Biblical studies and interpretations in order to get a handle on the thought processes and the actual environment of the writers. Without knowing how and why these writers lived and viewed life, we cannot begin to make any kind of bridge between their world and ours.

If we simply take a translation, such as English, and then extrapolate a meaning or application for modern living and a relationship with God, most likely we will have missed the deeper meaning of the translation when it was first penned.

In a way, I reject the "pick-and-choose" as a rationale for believing this or that, although it does look that way on the surface. For me, it is a matter of ignorance--and I do not use that word derisively. There are a great many things I am ignorant of. Some things I would like to know a little more about; some things I don't care if I know about or not; and there are some things that I have not even a clue that they exist because I haven't been exposed yet.

Finally, I feel that we have to mature enough to be able to move off the "book" as the source for our relationship to God. Eventually, the Bible is going to disappoint us. If the Bible becomes the sole source of inspiration and comfort, then we are heading down a blind alley.

The true source of inspiration, confidence, continuance is recognizing that God is with us every nano-second of our daily lives. The key is not wishing that God would act in our lives like he did for Moses, Abraham, Jacob, Joseph, David, and all others. Rather, the key is recognizing what God has already done in our lives. Recognizing what God just did in the last five minutes.

With such recognition, the Bible actually becomes an after-thought. The "dusty, moldy" words of wisdom past is replaced by a vibrant energy that is happening now.
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Old 12-14-2010, 08:56 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
27,857 posts, read 29,668,262 times
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If this applies to you, please note: People who post on religious discussion forums really ought to learn how to spell certain key words.

"Devine" is not a word. "Divine" is.
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Old 12-14-2010, 08:58 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
27,857 posts, read 29,668,262 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
People that claim the title "Christian" trust the Bible for the only source because we trust God.

1 Peter 1:25
but the word of the Lord stands forever.†And this is the word that was preached to you.

Whoever claims that for whatever reason that God's Word (for whatever reason) is \ became corrupted and that further revelations are still being needed are false.

1 Corinthians 15:2
By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

Galatians 1:8
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!

The NT boks relate the life, death and resurrection of Jesus. The books of the OT and NT provide all that is needed for salvation. They recount the founding, growth and the obstacles of the churches established by the Apostles.
The Apostles in their live time was already combating the notion of other people claims that they too also are sources of God's revelations\ prophecies.

NIV 2 Thessalonians 2:1b-2
"we ask you, brothers not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us,"


Those who come offering another gospel or other sources of the truth God reveals that they will be eternally damned. Paul puts it in the past tense.


Galatians 1:8-9
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!

As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!
All those warnings and they just didn't listen.
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Old 12-14-2010, 09:23 PM
 
63,354 posts, read 39,631,847 times
Reputation: 7768
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
People that claim the title "Christian" trust the Bible for the only source because we trust God.

1 Peter 1:25
but the word of the Lord stands forever.†And this is the word that was preached to you.

Whoever claims that for whatever reason that God's Word (for whatever reason) is \ became corrupted and that further revelations are still being needed are false.

1 Corinthians 15:2
By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

Galatians 1:8
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!

The NT boks relate the life, death and resurrection of Jesus. The books of the OT and NT provide all that is needed for salvation. They recount the founding, growth and the obstacles of the churches established by the Apostles.
The Apostles in their live time was already combating the notion of other people claims that they too also are sources of God's revelations\ prophecies.

NIV 2 Thessalonians 2:1b-2
"we ask you, brothers not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us,"


Those who come offering another gospel or other sources of the truth God reveals that they will be eternally damned. Paul puts it in the past tense.


Galatians 1:8-9
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!

As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!
The irony of this post is so thick I don't know where to begin . . . except to point out the obvious. Ironmaw has been trying to alert you to the fact the what you consider mainstream Christian Gospel is already false and has already been corrupted from what was taught in the first 3 centuries after Christ!!! Saints preserve us!!!
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Old 12-15-2010, 05:46 AM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 6,330,427 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ancient warrior View Post
RESPONSE:

Actually, it's called "pick the interpretation I like because I'm smarter than everyone else."

Sometimes it's called the special inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

Unfortunately, a conflict arises when two or more people try to play that same game.

Hence, the evolution of the various denominations of Christianity.
Very astute observation.
Maybe we can "separate the wheat from the chaff" by looking at the fruits people bring forth in their lives.. ?

But then again, you will find people bringing forth good fruit within almost all denominations; likewise, we can find people bringing forth less good fruit within all denominations, too.

So it seems to me now, that denominations are really quite pointless! Kind of like separating the sheep from the sheep!

Blessings,
brian
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Old 12-15-2010, 01:19 PM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
4,213 posts, read 5,804,730 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juj View Post
Where in the Bible does it say it can interpret itself?

Ask yourself a question. Did Jesus leave us a Bible or a Church?
A Bible in the minds of the Church which have been culminated into a Book considered the Word of God and the only true connection we have other than the Holy Spirit which confirms the Bible and as such there is no other way to know the words of Christ. This is meant to answer both question as well as a set of Bible verses I will have to quote considering I am not in the presence of a Bible, All scripture is God breathed, and for study and correction. I believe this was in either Timothy or Thessilonians, I will get back to you with a more accurate quote If someone else doesnt beat me to it.
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Old 12-15-2010, 01:23 PM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
4,213 posts, read 5,804,730 times
Reputation: 634
Quote:
Originally Posted by DNick View Post
I agree Twin.spin. The Bible is God's word. We are not in disagreement there. It's just that nowhere in the Bible does it say, only use the Bible.
Correct, but if something disagrees with the Bible then it needs to be rejected or clarified by the Bible.
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Old 12-15-2010, 01:25 PM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
4,213 posts, read 5,804,730 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
The Bible is the only place where His Word can be found...Jesus...where we can turly learn of Him, Who He is, and what He requires of us who diligently, with a heart felt passion, seek and strive to know what it is (in His words alone) to truly KNOW Him and truly LOVE Him. And only those who keep His Commandments truly know Him and Love Him. It Is Written...In the Bible.


Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.'"


In Christ's love...and prayerfully in His truth,
Verna.
Amen Sister
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