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I've been onto this fraudulence book for quite some time now and have been studying it's history, it's authenticity, it's harmonization with the other 26 books of the NT and have come to the conclusion, as have other scholars, that
But don't take my "biased' opinion as gospel. Read:
Revelation is God inspired text. It is found in the earliest manuscripts. Unless you can specifically point to errors that are not in line with God's Holy Spirit it should continue to be deemed of divine inspiration.
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
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I don't think 99% of Revelation is about the end of time. The writer said he saw "slave and free fleeing to the mountains". Since slavery has been eliminated that would be impossible today. Also, it implies the writer recognized the peoples he saw. Don't you think he would have said "they fleed in their horseless chariots of steel to the mountains" if he was seeing a snapshot of the end coming to the modern world?
The reason that Revelation is so misinterpreted is because people are too quick to draw their own conclusions and can not hear what the Spirit is saying. They make haste to be the Bible answer man. Many have made merchandise of the Word in this way. They have not been called by God to teach, and so they rely on carnal think patterns and reasonings based on false knowledge. They teach what is popular opinion that tickles the ear.
You can not understand Revelation if you think that it only refers to the last 7 years.
John was instructed to:
REV 1:19 Write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter; The term here/after means from the time that John saw the Revelation and going forward. Jesus said that the Great Tribulation would come into being when Judea was retaliated against for their rebellion against God and Rome in 70AD.
LK 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
JER 30:7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble, but he shall be saved out of it.
MT 24:16 "Then let them which be in Judea flee into the mountains:"
MT 24:20 But pray you that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
MT 24:21 For then shall be Great Tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
MT 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation ofthose days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
MT 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
MT 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
MT 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."
The word days in this context is the same word that Peter spoke of in:
2PET 3:8 "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."
ACTS 2:17 "And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:"
This is the last days we live in as it was also for them in their day. The pouring out of the Spirit to believers then, is still going on today. The last days are from then right up till the end. The first days in Bible history was before Christ and the last days are from Christ onward.
The Great Tribulation is more that a mere 7 years. For sure there are yet many things to be fulfilled but much has come to past already, now is and much more to come.
2THESS 2:1 "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2THESS 2:2 That you be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2THESS 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;" It is quite clear from this that the gathering unto the Lord at His return will not happen until after the Antichrist is revealed. The church will see the Antichrist, but those who follow Christ will overcome the Antichrist but many will die when he appears on the world stage. The many who die will overcome even in death.
REV 14:9 "And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
REV 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
REV 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascends up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receives the mark of his name.
REV 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus."
It does not take a genius to see that the following things have been going on already with more to come.
REV 6:7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.
REV 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth." To put this in perspective, consider the last century of two World Wars, Korean war, and the great famines. The bubonic plague killed much of Europe brought by the beast of the field, namely the rat. We still have AIDS as a problem, and there was the influenza in the early 1900s that killed millions. Don't forget the Holocaust. How about Starlin's extermination of many, the Rwanda genocide and on and on it goes.
All these curses come from the Devil.
REV 12:12 "Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the Devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has but a short time." He seeks to destroy fools and Gods people but those who trust in Christ will overcome. The wath of the devil is nothing compared to the wrath of God who will overcome the Devil and those who follow him.
REV 15:2 "And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God."
If one can not interpret these things that have aready happened and are happening even now on the earth in light of scripture, then how can one interpret the rest of it? To discuss it among each other to learn is one thing, but to call yourself a teacher and instruct the church as an authority when you are not, is another.
REV 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Revelation is anything but fraud and heresy, it is there to show that God is in control at all times, that while it seems that evil world powers are in control of worldly things, they will ultimately be destroyed. Revelation is there to show how things are to unfold in an orderly fashion, it should be a comforting book to believers that things will be taken care of by God as we are to always put it in His hands.
The reason that Revelation is so misinterpreted is because people are too quick to draw their own conclusions and can not hear what the Spirit is saying. They make haste to be the Bible answer man. Many have made merchandise of the Word in this way. They have not been called by God to teach, and so they rely on carnal think patterns and reasonings based on false knowledge. They teach what is popular opinion that tickles the ear.
You can not understand Revelation if you think that it only refers to the last 7 years.
John was instructed to:
REV 1:19 Write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter; The term here/after means from the time that John saw the Revelation and going forward. Jesus said that the Great Tribulation would come into being when Judea was retaliated against for their rebellion against God and Rome in 70AD.
LK 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
JER 30:7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble, but he shall be saved out of it.
MT 24:16 "Then let them which be in Judea flee into the mountains:"
MT 24:20 But pray you that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
MT 24:21 For then shall be Great Tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
MT 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation ofthose days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
MT 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
MT 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
MT 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."
The word days in this context is the same word that Peter spoke of in:
2PET 3:8 "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."
ACTS 2:17 "And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:"
This is the last days we live in as it was also for them in their day. The pouring out of the Spirit to believers then, is still going on today. The last days are from then right up till the end. The first days in Bible history was before Christ and the last days are from Christ onward.
The Great Tribulation is more that a mere 7 years. For sure there are yet many things to be fulfilled but much has come to past already, now is and much more to come.
2THESS 2:1 "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2THESS 2:2 That you be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2THESS 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;" It is quite clear from this that the gathering unto the Lord at His return will not happen until after the Antichrist is revealed. The church will see the Antichrist, but those who follow Christ will overcome the Antichrist but many will die when he appears on the world stage. The many who die will overcome even in death.
REV 14:9 "And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
REV 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
REV 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascends up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receives the mark of his name.
REV 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus."
It does not take a genius to see that the following things have been going on already with more to come.
REV 6:7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.
REV 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth." To put this in perspective, consider the last century of two World Wars, Korean war, and the great famines. The bubonic plague killed much of Europe brought by the beast of the field, namely the rat. We still have AIDS as a problem, and there was the influenza in the early 1900s that killed millions. Don't forget the Holocaust. How about Starlin's extermination of many, the Rwanda genocide and on and on it goes.
All these curses come from the Devil.
REV 12:12 "Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the Devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has but a short time." He seeks to destroy fools and Gods people but those who trust in Christ will overcome. The wath of the devil is nothing compared to the wrath of God who will overcome the Devil and those who follow him.
REV 15:2 "And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God."
If one can not interpret these things that have aready happened and are happening even now on the earth in light of scripture, then how can one interpret the rest of it? To discuss it among each other to learn is one thing, but to call yourself a teacher and instruct the church as an authority when you are not, is another.
REV 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Consider this possibility: none of what is described in Revelation is happening today. There is NO Israeli war with Gog brewing; there is NO 7-year peace treaty in effect with antichrist now or in the process of being formed---in fact there is NO antichrist or anyone even remotely resembling such an entity on the scene or being groomed behind the scene---it's all made-up sensationalized fiction, period; Russia is NOT getting ready to march on Israel; their armies will NOT be burned up on the mountains of Golan Heights; there is NO mark of the beast anywhere being used. In fact I could take nearly every popularized theory based on every verse in Revelation and show that nothing even remotely resembling it is currently being fulfilled in our modern day---and for very good reason: it was all fulfilled in 70 AD. The period 63-70 AD when Rome began formulating plans to invade Israel up to the destruction of Jerusalem was the "7-year tribulation". The actual "Great Jewish Revolt" of 66-70 AD was exactly 3 1/2 year---the "Great Tribulation; when Revelation was written circa 66 AD Nero was the antichrist; five "kings" had preceded him and the next after Nero continued a "short while". I could go on and on drawing exact parallels between Revelation and the Roman invasion of 66-70 AD. It's all in the history books, if you will just take the time to goggle the subject and then study its history.
Consider this possibility: none of what is described in Revelation is happening today. There is NO Israeli war with Gog brewing; there is NO 7-year peace treaty in effect with antichrist now or in the process of being formed---in fact there is NO antichrist or anyone even remotely resembling such an entity on the scene or being groomed behind the scene---it's all made-up sensationalized fiction, period; Russia is NOT getting ready to march on Israel; their armies will NOT be burned up on the mountains of Golan Heights; there is NO mark of the beast anywhere being used. In fact I could take nearly every popularized theory based on every verse in Revelation and show that nothing even remotely resembling it is currently being fulfilled in our modern day---and for very good reason: it was all fulfilled in 70 AD. The period 63-70 AD when Rome began formulating plans to invade Israel up to the destruction of Jerusalem was the "7-year tribulation". The actual "Great Jewish Revolt" of 66-70 AD was exactly 3 1/2 year---the "Great Tribulation; when Revelation was written circa 66 AD Nero was the antichrist; five "kings" had preceded him and the next after Nero continued a "short while". I could go on and on drawing exact parallels between Revelation and the Roman invasion of 66-70 AD. It's all in the history books, if you will just take the time to goggle the subject and then study its history.
The abomination of desolation spoken by Daniel the prophet did happen already between 66-70 AD. In the book of Danial it is written:
DAN 12:4 "But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased." But that which was sealed is now to be understood in:
MT 24:15 "When you therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, {whoso readeth,let him understand}"
Only a part of revelation has been fulfilled with much more to come.
Revelation speaks of the end of the world many times. That has not happened yet. I never said that there will be a 7 year peace treaty but then maybe there will be.
1/3rd of mankind being killed has not yet been fulfilled.
REV 9:18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
Gog and Magog are the southern parts of the former USSR. which are in Muslim hands now and who hate Israel and will be a part of the 10 nation confederation of Muslim nations that in the future will come against Israel.
REV 17:12 "And the ten horns which thou saw are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast." This has not happened yet
The mark of the beast I believe is a spiritual mark that represents the mindset ["forehead"] or the ["right hand"] of the strength of unbelievers. Those of the worlds philosophy and false religions will have given and will give their mindset and strength to the many Antichrists and the Antichrist . These are called "MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT" who give their allegiance to Antichrist.
REV 17:15 And he said unto me, The waters which you saw, where the ***** sits, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
There is a mark of the Godly that can not be seen with the naked eye either.
REV 3:12 "Him that overcomes will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of myGod, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem,"
REV 16:18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.
REV 16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
This has not happened yet.
REV 14:6 "And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people," This has not happened yet. Up till now the Gospel has been preached by men and women.
REV 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
REV 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
REV 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
REV 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
REV 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
REV 11:11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
REV 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up here. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
REV 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were frightened, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
This has not happened yet either.
So let me understand this: part of Revelation deals with the downfall of Jerusalem in 70 AD and part refers to the so-called end-times?
Quote:
1/3rd of mankind being killed has not yet been fulfilled.
REV 9:18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
And you really believe that three horses with heads of lions that spew fire and brimstone out of their mouths will ride around and destroy 1/3 of roughly 9-10 billion people??????
Last edited by thrillobyte; 06-23-2011 at 09:54 AM..
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will ride around and destroy 1/3 of roughly 9-10 billion people??????
