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What I hear from some that believe in annihilation is that resurrection is being raised to then die a second death - and it seems to be taken from this passage
Quote:
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
But what I see in that passage is no mention of being raised to life before the judgement - the dead are judged for their works
One passage which I do not think is only applicable to those in Noahs day but is applicable to all "ages" is this one
Quote:
1Pe 4:5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.
1Pe 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
Being judged does not save us it is totally at the mercy of God but we are accountable for our actions and will all give account to God for our actions......
What I hear from some that believe in annihilation is that resurrection is being raised to then die a second death - and it seems to be taken from this passage
But what I see in that passage is no mention of being raised to life before the judgement - the dead are judged for their works
One passage which I do not think is only applicable to those in Noahs day but is applicable to all "ages" is this one
Being judged does not save us it is totally at the mercy of God but we are accountable for our actions and will all give account to God for our actions......
I see "the dead" as referring to "all who have died." I don't see how "the dead" could very well "stand before God." That's something only the living could do. For this reason, I see "the dead" as meaning those who had died and were now resurrected (i.e. given new life) to stand before God. I agree with you, though, that this applies to us all, not just to those of Noah's day.
I see "the dead" as referring to "all who have died." I don't see how "the dead" could very well "stand before God." That's something only the living could do. For this reason, I see "the dead" as meaning those who had died and were now resurrected (i.e. given new life) to stand before God. I agree with you, though, that this applies to us all, not just to those of Noah's day.
Thanks for your post.
The word that is used for stand does not specifically mean standing on your feet
it is used for the star of bethlehem, the house of satan being divided against itself and will not stand, I do not believe it is talking about being resurrected at that stage JMO
G2476
ἵστημι
histēmi
his'-tay-mee
A prolonged form of a primary word στάω staō (of the same meaning, and used for it in certain tenses); to stand (transitively or intransitively), used in various applications (literally or figuratively): - abide, appoint, bring, continue, covenant, establish, hold up, lay, present, set (up), stanch, stand (by, forth, still, up). Compare G5087.
I do not see how they can be resurrected in a body and then be judged for their works in the lake of fire? especially when I read in 1 Cor 15 about the body that the dead are raised in is incorruptible, in glory, power and spiritual..... also it seems to me that when it says that those that have their portion in the lake of fire are those that are murderers, liers, faithless (untrustworthy) it seems that being judged is about a corruptible state and not a resurrected state...........
An idea that keeps going through my mind is that the judgment is the second death, and not being judged to a second death... What do you think? Has anybody got any ideas on that?
The word that is used for stand does not specifically mean standing on your feet
it is used for the star of bethlehem, the house of satan being divided against itself and will not stand, I do not believe it is talking about being resurrected at that stage JMO
G2476
ἵστημι
histēmi
his'-tay-mee
A prolonged form of a primary word στάω staō (of the same meaning, and used for it in certain tenses); to stand (transitively or intransitively), used in various applications (literally or figuratively): - abide, appoint, bring, continue, covenant, establish, hold up, lay, present, set (up), stanch, stand (by, forth, still, up). Compare G5087.
I do not see how they can be resurrected in a body and then be judged for their works in the lake of fire? especially when I read in 1 Cor 15 about the body that the dead are raised in is incorruptible, in glory, power and spiritual..... also it seems to me that when it says that those that have their portion in the lake of fire are those that are murderers, liers, faithless (untrustworthy) it seems that being judged is about a corruptible state and not a resurrected state...........
An idea that keeps going through my mind is that the judgment is the second death, and not being judged to a second death... What do you think? Has anybody got any ideas on that?
IMO the 2nd death is the sentence of the judgment....is that what you are saying only using different words?
IMO the 2nd death is the sentence of the judgment....is that what you are saying only using different words?
Maybe
What I believe is related to the judgment and second death is this
Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Heb 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Heb 4:13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.
Heb 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
When do you see resurrection taking place? -- I think I see it taking place at the second death -- what is sown is not raised unless it dies ...... We are sown and are raised through Christ's death and resurrection
I have started a thread previously about Jesus being the light of the world that lights every man coming into the world
What I believe is that we all have the breath of God, our spirit, which is like a seed of Christ in us, which is that light, and that is how we respond to the gospel and the Holy Spirit and that is what is germinated and grows as we "eat of his flesh" , it is not our mind or emotions but it is affected by our mind and emotions, and it does effect our mind and emotions - if we are one with Jesus, as Jesus was one with his Father, our thoughts and deeds will reflect only them ... and I am still at the baby stage
what i hear from some that believe in annihilation is that resurrection is being raised to then die a second death - and it seems to be taken from this passage
quote:
rev 20:12 and i saw the dead, small and great, stand before god; and the books were opened: And another book was opened, which is the book of life: And the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 and the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: And they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 and death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 and whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
but what i see in that passage is no mention of being raised to life before the judgement - the dead are judged for their works
Annhilationism is a false doctrine. It is not Biblical. Upon physical death, the soul (the real person) of the unbeliever goes immediately into the 'torments' side of Hades and remains there until the end of the Millennium, when he is resurrected to stand before Jesus Christ at the Great White Throne judgement. Daniel 12:2 ''And many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground (reference to the body) will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.'' Those who have been resurrected to disgrace and everlasting contempt are those who rejected Christ as Savior and now at the end of the Millennium are standing before Christ at the Great White throne. (The resurrection of the believer and the unbeliever take place at different times. They do not occur together. They are actually separated by over a thousand years).
As recorded in Revelation 20:13 'And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades (not hell, but Hades) gave up the dead which were in them, and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. These are the unbelievers who have been resurrected.
Since Jesus Christ was already judged for the sins of the unbeliever, the unbeliever cannot be judged for those sins. They were already paid for. Therefore, having rejected Christ as Savior, the basis of his judgment (condemnation) is his deeds - his works of human righteousness. God must always reject human good as it is incompatable with His own absolute righteousness. (Isa 64:6; Titus 3:5).
The unbelievers deeds are human good. Human good comes from the old sin nature just as the temptation to sin does. At the Cross, the unbelievers sins were judged, but his human good was not. Everything produced by the old sin nature must be judged. At the Great White Throne, that human good is judged.
God first opens the book of life to show that the unbelievers name is not in it. Then the books of works are opened, and the unbelievers works are read off to him and totaled up. God shows the unbeliever that his human good, his human righteousness does not measure up to God's perfect righteousness, and he is then sent off into the lake of fire which is the second death.
The second death does not mean cessation of existence. Death always means separation. Even physical death is only the separation of the soul from the body. Spiritual death is separation from God in time. To be separated from God refers to having no relationship with God in time. When an unbeliever dies physically, his spiritual death is perpetuated through out all eternity going forward. The second death is spiritual death in the lake of fire where the unbeliever exists forever without a relationship with God.
Perish (622) (Apollumi from apo = away from or wholly + olethros = state of utter ruin <> ollumi = to destroy <> root of apollyon (Re 9:11) = destroyer) means to destroy uttery but not caused to cease to exist.
Apollumi as it relates to men, is not the loss of being per se, but is the loss of well-being. It means to ruin so that the person (or thing) ruined can no longer serve the use for which he (it) was designed. To render useless. The gospel promises everlasting life for the one who believes. The failure to possess this life will result in utter ruin and eternal uselessness (but not a cessation of existence).
Apollumi then has the basic meaning of describing that which is ruined and is no longer usable for its intended prupose.
Apollumi is the term Jesus used to speak of those who are thrown into hell (Matt. 10:28): As He makes clear elsewhere, hell is not a place or state of nothiingless or unconscious existence, as is the Hindu Nirvana but is the place of everlasting torment, the place of eternal death, where there will be ''weeping and gnashing of teeth'' (Mt. 13:42,50).
When 1 Corinthians 15:26 says that 'The last enemy that will be abolished is death' , it is not referring to the second death. The second death is eternal and again, is separation from God for all eternity which means to have no relationship with God for all eternity. What 1 Corinthians 15:26 is referring to is physical death. Both the believer and the unbeliever will be resurrected thus bringing an end to physical death. As already stated in Daniel 12:2 ''And many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground (reference to the body) will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.'' Both the believer and the unbeliever will be physically alive for all eternity future. But while the believer will have eternal life in the presence of God, the unbeliever will be physically alive but spiritually dead for all eternity future.
Quote:
one passage which i do not think is only applicable to those in noahs day but is applicable to all "ages" is this one
quote:
1pe 4:5 who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.
1pe 4:6 for for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to god in the spirit.
being judged does not save us it is totally at the mercy of god but we are accountable for our actions and will all give account to god for our actions......
1 Peter 4:6 does not mean that the Gospel was preached to anyone after they died. It is referring to the fact that those who are now dead had been given the Gospel message while they were alive.
I see three resurrections. Christ (obviously already completed) the firstfruits (I believe is still to come) and then those that are His at His coming (the rest).
I see three resurrections. Christ (obviously already completed) the firstfruits (I believe is still to come) and then those that are His at His coming (the rest).
Hi Paul, thanks for the comment - for this thread I am more interested in the nature of the resurrection/s than in the number and timing......
In Corinthians there is support for 3 - Christ, then those that are his .... and then the end when he subdues all.
However in Revelation there is mention of the first resurrection applying to, not Christ, but those that are his......
Hi Paul, thanks for the comment - for this thread I am more interested in the nature of the resurrection/s than in the number and timing......
In Corinthians there is support for 3 - Christ, then those that are his .... and then the end when he subdues all.
However in Revelation there is mention of the first resurrection applying to, not Christ, but those that are his......
The first resurrection are the firstfruits. These are those that allegorically comprise the New Covenant temple. They are a type of the levitical priesthood that was chosen to be the priesthood for the nation of Israel. Therefore, these are what are techincally referred to as the "chosen". Our beloved Apostles would be part of this group.
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