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Old 12-24-2010, 09:19 AM
 
159 posts, read 174,091 times
Reputation: 46

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I agree that many here misunderstand your position, Mike. A lot of arguments on that tread you cited really are just emotion, and I personally dislike that. On the other hand, the fact that others don't make good counter arguments, doesn't make your arguments anything more than a hokum either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Originally this was going to simply be a reply to post #132 of the following thread. //www.city-data.com/forum/chris...hristians.html But I decided to make it its own thread to make sure more people see it. And most of it is now addressed to everyone. It goes beyond what I had intended to say to the poster of the above thread.



To be blunt, you don't know what you are talking about. And you don't know what I am talking about.
Well, that's about the only thing we agree on. Could have been worse

Quote:
Now I have been talking about capital punishment which is ordained by God to be used by human government to punish those who commit capital crimes such as murder. God's mercy and compassion did not prevent Him from mandating capital punishment. But now, moving away from that subject...
If God's morality is inapplicable to anything else, then how do you know it's really God's morality? If it's totally useless for any purpose, then maybe it actually came from the Devil. If nothing on this world runs even a little like God's hypothetical kingdom should, what's the point of this world, anyway?

Quote:
Get this through your head. When God's mercy is rejected, His justice must come into play. For those who die without Christ, that means eternal condemnation in the lake of fire.
And what about people who never had a chance to hear about Jesus? They never had a chance to reject, either. Lemme guess what you are going to say to that: If they really wanted to accept God, then God would have given them an opportunity.

There are two problems with that theory:

The first is that it implies that even if you don't post anything at all here, someone else would step in. If no one does, that either means that no one here is going to accept Jesus anyway, or that God, in fact, doesn't provide himself to everyone willing. Either way, you have zero reason to be here. I asked you that question before and that's a conundrum you can't answer, because your God is illogical.

The second is that it doesn't correspond to what we see in real life either. Socrates, for example, was almost a Christian in his philosophy but Jesus never gave him a chance.

The rest is mostly a masturbation over the fate of the 'wicked' so I won't even waste bandwidth (mine and yours) on that.

Last edited by python87; 12-24-2010 at 10:12 AM..

 
Old 12-24-2010, 09:22 AM
 
5,925 posts, read 6,912,066 times
Reputation: 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Yes, I believe in that Christ, does mike believe in a different one, if I am delusional?
 
Old 12-24-2010, 09:32 AM
 
Location: Pilot Point, TX
7,874 posts, read 14,117,383 times
Reputation: 4817
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
I will boil eggs in whichever pot has boiling water - I have control of the burners.

I will put shoes on the feet which have socks - I can dress myself.

Etc.

There's many analogies we can use to demonstrate that God is saying "if" in a manner of "condition of choosing when" as the illustration of the Potter reminds us. It is true - only those who believe can please Him, just as only the pot of boiling water can cook an egg - but the faith to believe comes from Him in His timing, just as the ability for the pot to boil comes from the cook.

The cook may not decree that all pots will boil, but the Potter has decreed that all will believe.
 
Old 12-24-2010, 10:51 AM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,612 posts, read 4,873,164 times
Reputation: 1408
Mike and Finn, you both seem very sure of your beliefs and very satisfied.

Have your beliefs changed over time and are they still evolving? Have you recently discovered new truths relating to your beliefs.

Do any of you remember the Star Trek episode where Worf meets another young Klingon who did not know about Calis, the legendary great Klingon leader of antiquity. When Worf told the young guy some of the stories about Calis, the guy scoffed and asked, "Do you really think these stories are true?"

Worf said, "I have studied these stories for my whole life, and I discover new truths in them every day."

Are you Christians who do the same thing with the Bible?

Last edited by hiker45; 12-24-2010 at 11:01 AM..
 
Old 12-24-2010, 10:59 AM
 
Location: Florida
76,949 posts, read 47,272,488 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
Mike and Finn, you both seem very sure of your beliefs and very satisfied.

Have your beliefs changed over time and are they still evolving? Have you recently discovered new truths relating to your beliefs.
I can't speak for others, but the more I study, the more proof I find to support what I believe.
 
Old 12-24-2010, 11:03 AM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,612 posts, read 4,873,164 times
Reputation: 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
I can't speak for others, but the more I study, the more proof I find to support what I believe.
That's interesting, Finn. So your beliefs don't change, but you are becoming more and more sure of them as you get older.

Thanks for answering.
 
Old 12-24-2010, 11:06 AM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 6,993,761 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
The god that universalists believe in is not the God of the Bible. Because you have rejected the truth, You have given yourself over to deception and don't know what you are talking about. And no amount of explaining things to you will do any good because you willingly remain under delusion.
Mike, you reject the purpose of that Jesus came here for which was to destroy the works of the devil (which is sin). You cannot refute the FACT that your theology excludes the eradication of sin. Sin ALWAYS remains in your theology. Universalists believe in the ERADICATION of sin according to the mission of Christ Jesus.
 
Old 12-24-2010, 11:07 AM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 6,993,761 times
Reputation: 594
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
Nobody can believe unless God gives them to believe.
 
Old 12-24-2010, 12:27 PM
 
910 posts, read 1,331,892 times
Reputation: 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
No, I did not say that not believing in hell will cause you to go to hell. As I plainly said, anyone who dies without believing in Christ will spend eternity in the lake of fire. Universalists deny this and promote a false doctrine.

I also said that God can not allow His love to prevent Him from exercising His justice. Anyone who dies without believing in Christ remains under eternal condemnation and will spend eternity in hell. One poster asked, why I am so adamant. Because it is the absolute truth.

Christ died for everyone. That does not make salvation automatic. Salvation is contengent upon faith in Christ. Everyone who is born into this world is already under condemnation. And anyone who dies without believing in Christ remains under eternal condemnation. And that means that that person will remain eternally separated from God. The place that God has designated for that person is first, hades, and then at the end of the Millennium, permanent residency in the lake of fire.

And I warned people not to be deceived by those who promote universalism.

Clear enough???
A new commandment I leave you, love ye one another as I love you, By this shall all men know that you are my disciples ..

By your logic, Ghandi, Mandela are all hell bound as they are not xtians? Those men showed and practicalized love.
 
Old 12-24-2010, 12:34 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
32,928 posts, read 26,160,446 times
Reputation: 16087
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Well said & Welcome back.
Thank you. And merry Christmas.
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