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Either God is powerful enough to gaurd the whole thing or He isnt even powerful enough to gaurd one word. It is about faith and guidance of the Holy Spirit. He sent us His Son and then sent the comforter (Holy Spirit), one would ave been sufficiant but we have three and the written word. How many men of God discussed which were to be included? I believe the number was 70, 70 men of God being led by the spirit and what did they disagree about? Trivial matters just like we do today but they were gathered together for a common purpose and we are often gathered together for oneupmanship and not truth but just to win a debate.
Look at the books that were considered, read them and you will see why they were rejected. Many were rejected because they were proven forgeries while others contradicted known scripture and still pretty much all are still valuable for study if not for scripture.
Good response! -- What many seem to lose sight of is that "ALL scripture is INSPIRED by God" .... does not say, "God held the pen/quill and wrote the words on parchment in His own handwriting."
Many people want to accept parts of the Bible as truth (heaven, God, Jesus, etc), but declare the Bible "changed or outmoded" when it gets too close to sin (divorce, adultery, tithing, sin, etc). The problem with that is the moment one imagines themselves qualified to 'judge' parts of the Bible 'true' and others 'changed/untrue', they lose any objective standard for declaring any part 'true.'
The notion that men have changed the Bible in revised 'translations' down through the years, does not hold water! When the Qumran (Dead Sea) scrolls were discovered, they pre-dated the earliest known Masoretic texts by 1000 years. Yet, the differences between the two were merely margin annotations. "Translations" are not the same thing as "Interpretations" ... Translations allow us to benefit from the same information across multi-nations, generations, languages -- but, are no longer valid 'translations' if they seek to change the intent or meaning of the original text.
A few of many other PROOFS of scripture include:
1). 2500 accurately fulfilled 'future' prophecies
2). 300 accurately fulfilled Messianic prophecies (be Jesus Christ)
3). The life-changing power of God's Word over thousands of years.
4). Historical evidence that always supports Bible truth.
5). Convergence of thought across 1500 years, by 100+ different writers
6). God's power to inspire and 'KEEP' His Word inspired
7). Literary proof: 10,000 ancient texts (vs 600 for #2, Odyssey)
8). God's ways and truths revealed in scripture --- work!
9). God's indwelling Holy Spirit bears witness to the truth of God's Word
10). In spite of 2000-years of attempts to destroy the Bible, it still remains the most widely read book known to mankind.
Good response! -- What many seem to lose sight of is that "ALL scripture is INSPIRED by God" .... does not say, "God held the pen/quill and wrote the words on parchment in His own handwriting."
Many people want to accept parts of the Bible as truth (heaven, God, Jesus, etc), but declare the Bible "changed or outmoded" when it gets too close to sin (divorce, adultery, tithing, sin, etc). The problem with that is the moment one imagines themself qualified to 'judge' parts of the Bible 'true' and others 'changed/untrue', they lose any objective standard for declaring the opposite position 'true.'
The notion that men have changed the Bible in revised 'translations' down through the years, does not hold water! When the Qumran (Dead Sea) scrolls were discovered, they pre-dated the earliest known Masoretic texts by 1000 years. Yet, the differences between the two were merely margin annotations. "Translations" are not the same thing as "Interpretations" ... Translations allow us to benefit from the same information across multi-nations, generations, languages -- but, are no longer valid 'translations' if they seek to change the intent or meaning of the original text.
A few of many other PROOFS of scripture include:
1). 2500 accurately fulfilled 'future' prophecies
2). 300 accurately fulfilled Messianic prophecies (be Jesus Christ)
3). The life-changing power of God's Word over thousands of years.
4). Historical evidence that always supports Bible truth.
5). Convergence of thought across 1500 years, by 100+ different writers
6). God's power to inspire and 'KEEP' His Word inspired
7). Literary proof: 10,000 ancient texts (vs 600 for #2, Odyssey)
8). God's ways and truths revealed in scripture --- work!
9). God's indwelling Holy Spirit bears witness to the truth of God's Word
10). In spite of 2000-years of attempts to destroy the Bible, it still remains the most widely read book known to mankind.
The original OT writings were already corrupted by the primitive IGNORANCE of our savage ancestors. The inspirations have been clouded under that veil of ignorance ever since. Even the unambiguous example and teaching of Jesus Christ did not completely remove the veil so ignorance has persisted for over 2000 years. Religious leaders have added to the corruption in the name of power and control extolling that primitive ignorance as a sign of faith! Superstition is a difficult habit to kick.
You missed the point entirely, Robin . . . to refresh your memory:
It has nothing to do with God's power, Robin. That is a worthless form of magical thinking based on the "precepts and doctrines of men." For example: Either God is powerful enough to guard all children from molestation or He isn't even powerful enough to guard one child from molestation. We have been given DOMINION, Robin. What about that do you not get? There is nothing that is in human hands that could ever possibly be inerrant or infallible.
Get the point about your argument, Robin? . . . it is not about faith . . . it is about ignoring God's express will about things on earth.
His will is for us to learn to think as He does or to clarify even more to have His thoughts not our own which we all fail in our own pride. Humble ourselves is the key, but we too often assert the carnal thought of pride.
The original OT writings were already corrupted by the primitive IGNORANCE of our savage ancestors. The inspirations have been clouded under that veil of ignorance ever since. Even the unambiguous example and teaching of Jesus Christ did not completely remove the veil so ignorance has persisted for over 2000 years. Religious leaders have added to the corruption in the name of power and control extolling that primitive ignorance as a sign of faith! Superstition is a difficult habit to kick.
Within the Bible what power and control is there? Anything that takes from God is easily spotted so what is it that we seem to miss?
How do you know that the original scripture was clouded by ignorance?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
The original OT writings were already corrupted by the primitive IGNORANCE of our savage ancestors. The inspirations have been clouded under that veil of ignorance ever since. Even the unambiguous example and teaching of Jesus Christ did not completely remove the veil so ignorance has persisted for over 2000 years. Religious leaders have added to the corruption in the name of power and control extolling that primitive ignorance as a sign of faith! Superstition is a difficult habit to kick.
Not sure where you are getting your information --"OT writings were already corrupted by the primitive IGNORANCE of our savage ancestors" --- The FACTS I listed are supportable --
The "veil of ignorance" notion is thrown aside by the amazing insight of the Old and New Testament writings..which are still applicable today. That is another 'proof', but is somewhat annecdotal, so I didn't include it.
I would suggest that the 'veil of IGNORANCE' of God's Word and Ways is a problem we all face today; ... not just our 'savage ancestors'
Not sure where you are getting your information --"OT writings were already corrupted by the primitive IGNORANCE of our savage ancestors" --- The FACTS I listed are supportable --
The "veil of ignorance" notion is thrown aside by the amazing insight of the Old and New Testament writings..which are still applicable today. That is another 'proof', but is somewhat annecdotal, so I didn't include it.
I would suggest that the 'veil of IGNORANCE' of God's Word and Ways is a problem we all face today; ... not just our 'savage ancestors'
You are correct, we are the savage ignorant in that we seek knowledge without wisdom.
His will is for us to learn to think as He does or to clarify even more to have His thoughts not our own which we all fail in our own pride. Humble ourselves is the key, but we too often assert the carnal thought of pride.
This is absurd! I would never act like the genocidal, egomaniacal tyrant described in the OT as exercising every evil negative human emotion on His own children. That you not only accept that our loving God would do those things . . . but also think we are supposed to become like Him . . . is absolutely incredible!!
This is absurd! I would never act like the genocidal, egomaniacal tyrant described in the OT as exercising every evil negative human emotion on His own children. That you not only accept that our loving God would do those things . . . but also think we are supposed to become like Him . . . is absolutely incredible!!
And this shows your lack of faith and wisdom and a clouded knowledge of God and His Word.
Please do not take offence, that is not my intention. Your knowledge of scripture is superior to my own but you lack wisdom and try to hide that lack with your own views.
Not sure where you are getting your information --"OT writings were already corrupted by the primitive IGNORANCE of our savage ancestors" --- The FACTS I listed are supportable --
The "veil of ignorance" notion is thrown aside by the amazing insight of the Old and New Testament writings..which are still applicable today. That is another 'proof', but is somewhat annecdotal, so I didn't include it.
Your so-called facts are not relevant to the issue of the corrupt and ignorant descriptions written by our ancestors. I do not dispute the divine origins of the underlying inspirations or prophesies. But our ancestors' ignorance is NOT refutable nor is their savagery (unless you think throwing babies alive into fires to appease gods is not savage). Trusting them to have reported without corruption from their ignorance and superstitious beliefs is ridiculous.
Quote:
I would suggest that the 'veil of IGNORANCE' of God's Word and Ways is a problem we all face today; ... not just our 'savage ancestors'
It is worse than that. The mainstream churches have insisted on retaining the ancient ignorance as a sign of faith in God . . . ignoring the work of the LIVING Christ who abides with us and His Holy Spirit within our consciousnesses guiding us to what God has "written in our hearts." They have made the Bible an idol and replaced the living Word of God (Christ) with the words "written in ink."
I believe the Bible is the word of God. Remember the Bible was originally written in Hebrew and Greek and then both languages were "lost: for centuries till they were rediscovered. The various Bible scroll came down through the centuries and were then translated into our language. No language can translated exactly into another, so slight discrepancies are to be expected. I believe this too is part of God's plan. Remember that Christ said that no everyone was to be given understanding. I believe that we need to read and study the Bible, sometimes more than one translation, and pray for God to " show me what you mean Lord, I know it means something Show Me, Show Me. " and it it is meant to be you will be shown but not till then. God makes his word obscure for a reason.
I know a lot of doubters will say this is a cop-out. If the Bible can be easily debated and different explanations given for various passages who can say what is right or wrong. You will have to answer that question yourself. I believe God has opened my eyes to certain thing, but there are many more I don't understand at this time. Sometimes I will see a passage I have read many times and poof something hits me and I see it in a whole new light. Where does this knowledge and understanding come from--God of course.
Why does God open some eyes and not other, have'nt a clue. I do think that everyone is right where he is supposed to be at this time. So whether you understand the Bible or not you are part of God's plan which is moving along perfectly. I also thing that creating a debate can be an effective to spread God's word.
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How do you know that the original scripture was clouded by ignorance?
