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But in your theology you would still have Hell holding sinners who would be continuing to sin (since they will be cursing God). So Sin is getting a good deal there. It gets to have an exclusive license to keep man in his misery. Thus there would be no ERADICATION of sin.
No you say that only those who believe in Christ will be saved. That is True. But you of the belief here that Christ won't have all to believe. Universalists believe He will.
As for sources, go to e-Sword - the Sword of the LORD with an electronic edge and download their free software. Then download the Bibles they have for free and install those. Including the Greek ones such as Textus Receptus with Strong's numbering and the Westcott Hort with Strong's. Also, get the King James version with Strong's. That will give you a lot to get started with.
But I said that Christ came to redeem humanity and set him free from sin, not eradicate sin itself. He came to set the sinner free.
For as quick as ET'er are to point out how universalism is a heresy of satan, the one thing they have never owned up to is the fact that according to their dogma 90% of mankind is headed for eternal torment. They never want to take possession of this monstrosity because to do so would be to actually shine the light of truth on the horrific belief they've been chained to by fundamentalism. If you think back on every post the ET'ers have made here not one has ever said, "Yes, I acknowledge that 90% of mankind is going to hell for eternity and this is a colossal failure on the part of God to redeem man as He promised to." The truth is they cannot speak the words because the thought is too repugnant even for them, despite how deeply they have saturated themselves with the kool-aid. What an absolute tragedy: for them to know deep in their hearts that only 10% of mankind will inherit eternal life while the rest are buried in eternal fires, screaming and writhing in unimaginable pain for all eternity. The sheer illogic of this screams out at them but they refuse to hear. What an unspeakable tragedy that they cannot comprehend this.
This is one of those exaggerations that I am talking about. Never in my entire life have I heard the figure that 90% of humanity is doomed to hell for eternity. I don't know who has been telling you this but this kind of claim is a gross misconception. Has anyone listened to what I've said. Though ETers acknowledge hell, it is not the foundation of our message. We don't use it to get people to come to Christ, we use the love of Christ for that. The only kind of person who would make a claim such as the dramatic one you mentioned would be someone who is clearly so far to the right that it borders on fanatical.
Hi Sparrow. When I say it has no impact on me, I mean that it has no impact on my views of God asall loving and kind. I take hold of what Christ has so graciously offered me and I am thankful to Him from the bottom of my heart. Because of His grace, hell has no hold over me. I'm free and allowed to come to His throne where I can finally take hold of real truth in Him. The chains of sin and the consequences that result from it are no longer tied to my existence as I am a new creation in Him. In regards to the other part, I'm sorry if I come off detached. I don't mean to; it's just part of my nature. But to answer your question...the answer is that I do have profound fears about members of my family, as well as the people of this world, going to a place of eternal seperation from God. I want all people to know just how wonderful and loving Christ really is and that He offers freedom for us. To see anyone suffer causes me heartache cause I simply can't stand to see people hurt. I want to help all people, though my flesh fails me at times. For me, I want all people to be with God in eternal paradise.
Hi Nero, I thank you for answering and giving me what is in your heart. I can tell you are being totally honest here and that it is what is inside of you. I really appreciate that kind of reply. I bolded a few things that you said because I think they are important points and want to address them at a later time. But for now, thank you for your response.
This is my opinion:
Intellectualized... rationalized?
That is what is going on.
The idea is so horrendous that it cannot be dealt with.
It has no response in the spirit where it should be felt.
Instead it is stuck back in the back of the brain and has nothing attached to it. It is as bland as saying "the sky is blue". It is nonchalantly mentioned. They can SAY "yes it's horrible" all they want, but if they don't look at their belief through the spirit, they will never get to the point where they actually LOOK at it and REALIZE what it is they believe.
And their heart, meantime, has developed HUGE walls built around it where the idea of Hell is BLOCKED. Huge walls where ET is concerned because they are human beings who cannot ACTUALLY fathom this idea of "ENDLESS TORTURE"!!
The Holy Spirit works in the HEART of man. If ET is sitting OUTSIDE of the walls of the heart, there is no way this blasphemous belief can be erradicated from a man's heart. It must be DEALT with.
But it is in GOD's timing. God knows what He is doing, and He SEES THE HEART. He knows when a heart is ready to be worked on and ready to deal with the issue of "ET erradication".
Well said, sparrow. Often people who build walls around themselves to keep truths out that might otherwise crush their set of beliefs, fail to realize that these same walls keep them prisoners in their own sanitized little world. And if, by chance, they invite the Holy Spirit in and the Holy Spirit tries to draw them out out into the light they suddenly find, sadly, that when they were building this impenetrable wall they forgot to add a door.
Think about this Thrillobyte. Who teaches the MOST Powerful God? - Universalists do. They preach a God that can and will accomplish everything He sets His desire to do. Also, which one preaches a Gospel that brings joy to ones ears? - Universalists do. We preach a Gospel of Peace and Love by God's Almighty Power. Those ETers preach a gospel of fear and death. They want us to be so scared of hell that we will change. Whereas the Uniiversalist is preaching a gospel where Love is what changes others. So while they persuade with fear, we will continue to preach Love.
Amen, brother. God IS Love. The song I remember from my very early youth says it well about how love saves....
I was sinking deep in sin, far from the peaceful shore,
Very deeply stained within, sinking to rise no more,
But the Master of the sea heard my despairing cry,
From the waters lifted me, now safe am I.
Refrain:
Love lifted me!
Love lifted me!
When nothing else could help,
Love lifted me!
All my heart to Him I give, ever to Him I’ll cling,
In His blessed presence live, ever His praises sing,
Love so mighty and so true, merits my soul’s best songs,
Faithful, loving service, too, to Him belongs.
Souls in danger, look above, Jesus completely saves,
He will lift you by His love, out of the angry waves.
He’s the Master of the sea, billows His will obey,
He your Savior wants to be, be saved today.
thrillobyte...unfortunately for both UR and ET, they are sects that will fade away in time. ET, because it is past, and UR, because it still relies on a future consummation, when all along, it has already been consummated. Peace to you.
[LEFT]I began considering the possibility that Christianity, like civilization, undergoes an evolutionary process from a more primitive state of ignorance and bondage to a higher level of understanding and freedom from repression, in which the magnificence of God's love and mercy reach their greatest expression.
Everything is in a constant state of evolution---species, fashion, technology, philosophy, you name it. Let's take a look at Christianity.
In the early days of Christianity, what we now know as the Roman Catholic Church was in its infancy and eternal torment[/LEFT]
this seems historically incorrect to me
the Old Testament doesn't teach an afterlife at all without a few exceptions, it is a matter of fact that the doctrine of hell in judaism has been brought in from pagan sources, the doctrine of hell generally was not the beginning but the end of a development in several cultures, the early Christians didn't believe in hell either, the doctrine of hell was established as dogma only 500AD by the Roman emperor and has begun to be challenged only a 1000 years later, these 1000 years are also known as the dark ages.
A inevitable evolutionary process? .....NO ....This sounds like Muhammed, Joseph Smith text, humanism, atheism......, but in Hebrews 13:8...``Jesus Christ the same yesterday and today and forever``.... It is a finished works at the cross of Christ and all new redemption is a diffrent religions than the religion that Jesus Christ brought and authored to the earth .... In Matthew 24: 4-5, Jesus said ....``Take heed that no man deceive you... for many shall come in my name saying I am the Christ and shall deceive many... verse 8-9,...all these are the beginnings of sorrors, then they shall deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you and you shall be hated of all nations for my name sake``....... Universalism is a turning of people away from the redemption authored by Lord Jesus Christ and all the people who do not get saved because the all are saved at the great Judgement according to Universalism idea will be lost to the Lord Jesus because the author and the finisher of the faith did not tell people these ideas........ Universalism is like In Matthew 7: 3-5....``And why behold you the mote that is in your brothers eye, but consider not the beam that is in your own eye.....or how will you say to your brother, let me pull out the mote out of your eye, and look there is a beam in your own eye?.... You hypocrite first take out the beam out of your own eye and then shall you see clearly to take out the mote in your brothers eye``.... Jesus said ..... This a what the liberal do, they intimidate their brothers and say there is no hell and will end up there......Why? because they do not take the beam out of their own eyes for clearity..... How do we take the beam out of our eyes? ..... we get Baptised by fire through Jesus Holy Spirit and find truth, and pray for truth into Jesus truth ......
That is what the bible teaches and that is what the Spirit teaches.
ENDLESS MINDLESS TORTURE... and they call UR'ers "tools of satan".
What is the WORST possible horribleness one could possibly think of?
Torture.
What is even WORSE than that?
ENDLESS TORTURE.
And they say those who believe that "God's love will CONQUER ALL" and who bring the GOOD NEWS of HOW POWERFUL GOD IS, and bring the JOY that their loved ones are INDEED SAFE with God, their CREATOR, are aligned with some "evil being".
It is not difficult to see what is "evil" and what is "good".
Universal reconciliation PERFECTLY unravels so many mysteries about God and about this life we are in. ET adds KNOTS and more KNOTS and more KNOTS.
ET is the MOST BLASPHEMOUS thing mankind could POSSIBLY attribute to it's CREATOR. While the idea that LOVE CONQUERS ALL, that God's LOVE is the SUPREME POWER of the universe and will CONQUER ALL of mankind's darkness is the MOST BEAUTIFUL thing mankind could attribute it's creator. UR is saying that WE TRUST GOD.
Adam and Eve HID from God.
They were AFRAID of God...
GOD does not want our FEAR. (reverence YES, NOT FEAR. There is NO love in fear.)
God wants our LOVE.
We LOVED Him because HE FIRST LOVED US.
The most powerful thing in the world is LOVE.
God is CONQUERING ALL of our fear, all of our darkness.
If He was not doing this... then that would mean there is something MORE POWERFUL in the universe than LOVE.
AND THAT, my friends is IMPOSSIBLE.
peace,
sparrow
Sparrow,
Your sermon bears repeating. May others read it and the chains of hell's bondage fall off from them. May the Lord of Glory use your voice to open blind eyes - to set captives of fear free in the name of Jesus Christ our Lord. Glory to God in the highest. Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name, thy Kingdom come, thy will be done one Earth as it is in Heaven. Amen!
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