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I guess this has always been one of my problems with Christianity. As someone who has struggled with self esteem issues for my whole life - I can't imagine subscribing to a faith that basically told me I was worthless. I've finally come to a point where I can see the good in myself and I can love myself. This has also made me more capable of seeing the good in others and loving others more purely. I could never go back to thinking I'm no good. I've been there. It wasn't fun or healthy.
The Bible (God) DOES NOT say we are worthless. You misunderstand. Rather, it says our works of (supposed) righteousness are worthless (outside of Christ). Only through Christ can we please God.
To be clear, God loves us in our sinful state (before Christ indwells us). Otherwise, He wouldn't have died for us.
All good comes from God. So even if someone does not acknowledge it, it still is, which is why we are all acceptable. We just do not all come to that realization the same way or at the same time.
What is often proposed with the passage is that you have to believe in Christ before your good matters, that is not true.
Not true!
John 6:29
29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”
At Caesarea there was a man named Cornelius, a centurion in what was known as the Italian Regiment. He and all his family were devout and God-fearing; he gave generously to those in need and prayed to God regularly. One day at about three in the afternoon he had a vision. He distinctly saw an angel of God, who came to him and said, “Cornelius!”
Cornelius stared at him in fear. “What is it, Lord?” he asked.
The angel answered, “Your prayers and gifts to the poor have come up as a memorial offering before God. Acts 10:1-4
This man was in Christ, just like Moses, Abraham, Issac, David, Joseph, Daniel, etc.
29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”
That doesn't change that all good comes from God nor does is mean that what I said is not correct. That verse is telling you what the work of God does.
Since you believe, your belief is the work of God. That does not negate anything you did good before you came to believe.
This man was in Christ, just like Moses, Abraham, Issac, David, Joseph, Daniel, etc.
So what you are saying is, before you believed, you were in Christ, and because you were in Christ before you believed like Moses, Abraham, Issac, David, Joseph, Daniel, etc,any good works you did prior to believing were acceptable to God.
Fair enough
The Bible (God) DOES NOT say we are worthless. You misunderstand. Rather, it says our works of (supposed) righteousness are worthless (outside of Christ). Only through Christ can we please God.
To be clear, God loves us in our sinful state (before Christ indwells us). Otherwise, He wouldn't have died for us.
I guess I just can't accept in my heart that we are in a "sinful state." It seems that so many of our natural and innate instincts and feelings are considered sinful by Christianity. I just can't feel guilty about the way I was made. I don't feel sinful. I have many flaws - don't get me wrong - I'm not perfect. But I don't feel sinful.
That doesn't change that all good comes from God nor does is mean that what I said is not correct. That verse is telling you what the work of God does.
Since you believe, your belief is the work of God. That does not negate anything you did good before you came to believe.
So what you are saying is, before you believed, you were in Christ, and because you were in Christ before you believed like Moses, Abraham, Issac, David, Joseph, Daniel, etc,any good works you did prior to believing were acceptable to God.
Fair enough
No, the man in your passage was serving God in anticipation of Christ.
I guess I just can't accept in my heart that we are in a "sinful state." It seems that so many of our natural and innate instincts and feelings are considered sinful by Christianity. I just can't feel guilty about the way I was made. I don't feel sinful. I have many flaws - don't get me wrong - I'm not perfect. But I don't feel sinful.
It seems your idea of a sinful state & God's idea of a sinful state differ.
It seems your idea of a sinful state & God's idea of a sinful state differ.
What instincts are you referring to?
Well, I don't believe in the Biblical God - if there is one at all. I guess I mean lust - most of all. It just seems that sex is considered so dirty. You aren't even supposed to think about it - even when you are married. You are supposed to do it to have children - but not feel lustful about it. We all feel lust - whether we are young or old, married or single, gay or straight, etc. It's part of our DNA. It's the way we were built.
I'm not saying that you are wrong to believe what you believe. I'm just saying that I just can't feel that way. I can't feel that nothing I do is good enough unless I'm Christian. I can't feel bad about emotions and feelings I have that are innate. I can feel bad about hurting someone's feelings or saying things that I regret - but I can't feel bad about my basic nature and my beliefs.
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