Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
So you believe all those billions of people who died before Jesus died, that their sins were not died for? So all the patriarchs all go to your hell and billions of others because they died before Jesus died?
No, I didn't say a single word about them, you put those words in my mouth. Abraham, and others who had believed in what they had been revealed about God, and then died were already waiting for Jesus in the good side of hades, and after Jesus died on the cross He fetched them and took them to heaven with Him.
Right. URs say that if you reject Jesus, you are still going to heaven because you will be forced to believe in Him after you die. This is how they will explain that Jesus is still needed. He is needed for the after-death conversion process, and that is how they can attach the word "Christian" to the Universalises. But of course the truth is that Jesus came here to EARTH and suffered and died for the LIVING people, so that THOSE WHO BELIEVE will have eternal life. Salvation is for the living, and the Bible was not written for the dead, but for the living.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius
That's interesting, Finn.
So you believe all those billions of people who died before Jesus died, that their sins were not died for? So all the patriarchs all go to your hell and billions of others because they died before Jesus died?
Yeah it is interesting isn't it Eusebius? Its also interesting that the Scriptures teach that the gospel is preached to those who are dead so that though they have been judged in the flesh as men, they can live in the spirit according to God. As it is written, all who die in Adam will be made alive in Christ.\
Moderator cut: personal
Last edited by Miss Blue; 12-30-2010 at 03:57 PM..
Reason: too personal and attacking
Insane, it is the biggest reason I have stop reading the Christianity forum. I have never been one to post much on this forum. But I use to lurk very often. I don't even do that much anymore. Like you said, every other thread is ET or UR. It is one hitting back at the other and vice versa. I wish those on both sides understood how the constant bickering simply drives people away.
Unfortunately, CaliDude is exactly correct, and it is a very serious problem on this forum. So many (dozens) of wonderful Christian people who used to post and hang out here are now gone. (presumably to other forums) Practically all that remains is the constant bickering of UR vs ET...you can't read down through the forum thread titles without UR/ET being shoved in your face...
The thing is that Christian Universalism is the only form of Christianity that teaches that God is in fact the savior of all people, and will in fact accomplish his desire and will to save all people.
The gospel message of Christian Universalism is literally diametrically opposed to the message of nearly every other form of Christianity, as they teach that the gospel truth is that most of humanity is doomed forever, and that God is only the savior of a very small percentage of people, and that he will never accomplish his desire or purpose to save all people.
So either Christian Universalists are enemies of the gospel, or it is all other Christians who teach that Christ was a failure in his mission to accomplish Gods plan to save all people.
That is to say that Christian universalists are spiritually at enmity with all other forms of Christianity which deny the full victory of Christ over sin and death throughout all creation.
For hundreds of years Christian Universalists were hunted down and imprisoned and tortured an murdered at the hands of the orthodox fundamentalist church leaders who themselves depend on the evil doctrines of everlasting doom for most of humanity in order to maintain their positions of power over the laity.
So either Christian Universalists are the enemies of the true Gospel, or it is every other Christian who dispute the doctrine of UR.
Knowing that people have in the past murdered and tortured others over this very issue is enough to make for passionate discussions/debates between all parties. After all, for some people the idea that most of humanity deserves to be tortured and or exterminated forever is only a little away from the "kill em' all and let God sort them out" mentality ...
From my experience, there are many who believe in the deserved doom of most of humanity who are murderers in their hearts, even if they have never actually done murder. If we were in the dark ages and the option was still open to torture and murder all those they deemed to be heretics and blasphemers, many of them would be right there in the front row with pliers and tongs and heated implements in hand, while the bonfire was a preparing outside, ready to make you confess your blaspheme and heresy before they burned you alive.
After all, they are just trying to save your soul from everlasting torture and or eradication after you die with a little torture now in this life ... That was the common excuse for the "Christian church" torturing and murdering millions of innocent people for hundreds of years after all.
Indeed, Ironmaw, and if America keeps sliding down to the abyss and push comes to shove, I don't doubt that there will be that sort of activity happening right in our midst. After-all, we've already allowed our own government authorities to torture prisoners of war and write and sell books about having done so and even our current president who some of us thought would do the right thing has not held any of these war criminals to account. Therefore, America is ripe for a disgusting and bloody free-for-all because we have become a morally corrupt nation and lawlessness is loosed. The time we live in is not going to be an easy time for cowards and those who fear death, that's for sure, nor for those who believe that God himself is the source of all this evil. 9/11 was a touch-stone for America to see what "her" true spiritual condition was and we have seen that it was "an eye for an eye" or perhaps even "two eyes for an eye".... the past decade has been quite shocking!
The self-imposed regret and remorse (weeping and gnashing of teeth) at your own willfulness or obtuseness and obliviousness to the plight of others whom you affected in this life (which will be made very clear to you . . . no memory lapses). This is likely to be accompanied by you actually mentally experiencing all the consequences you personally caused to others during your life.
The "I know because I know" proclamation?
Where is the love?(song that came to mind)
Unfortunately, CaliDude is exactly correct, and it is a very serious problem on this forum. So many (dozens) of wonderful Christian people who used to post and hang out here are now gone. (presumably to other forums) Practically all that remains is the constant bickering of UR vs ET...you can't read down through the forum thread titles without UR/ET being shoved in your face...
Bud
I wonder what CaliDude or you suggest as a viable way around the problem?
Paul said he was set for the defence of the evangel.
He didn't win very many friends. The Jews were incensed at him and wanted him killed.
Should Paul have just tried to win friends and influenced enemies?
Unfortunately, CaliDude is exactly correct, and it is a very serious problem on this forum. So many (dozens) of wonderful Christian people who used to post and hang out here are now gone. (presumably to other forums) Practically all that remains is the constant bickering of UR vs ET...you can't read down through the forum thread titles without UR/ET being shoved in your face...
Bud
True. Like I said, I think the only way around the problem is to open a new board for UR related topics. It is indeed very sad to have seen so many believers depart from this board.
Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 12-31-2010 at 08:24 AM..
It seems to me that the topic is far more important than the other matters of the Christian faith. What's up with this?
God is restoring all that is lost to the church.
The flame of truth of Universal reconciliation became all but a flicker through the history of the church, but that dimmed flicker is now glowing bright once again, and as always, whenever anything in the form of light is restored back to the church,it is strongly rejected by those in the church who believe they already have all the light of the truth there is to be known, these same members of the organized church rejecting UR, would be the same people rejecting the restored light of truth that "The just believe by faith" back in the days of Luther.
So as fas as i am concerned what you are seeing Insane, is Light V Darkness.
I have said it many times on here, that i am glad we are not living in Medieval times, because the consequences for those who opposed the teachings and doctrines of the church were not very pleasant to say the least.We are also fortunate enough today that God has set in place secular justice systems and governments that protect us from those who would kill, believing they were doing God a service.
There is far more to discover about God than we could ever imagine, and yet we want to confine God to a creed of doctrines and a bible.
True. Like I said, I think the only way around the problem is to open a new board for UR related topics. It is indeed very sad to have seen so many believers depart this board.
Yes, I'm sure you'd be happy as a lark to run your opponents off the main board. No one is forcing you to hang around, to read, or to participate in any particular thread. And no one is preventing anyone else from starting new threads on any topic of their choice concerning Christianity. And the believers in UR are not trying to force the ETers be put in their own segregated room.
So you believe all those billions of people who died before Jesus died, that their sins were not died for? So all the patriarchs all go to your hell and billions of others because they died before Jesus died?
A very reasonable question which i imagine will go unanswered or receive no reasonable scriptual answer. If only the likes of Finn could understand it's simply not just about Jesus dying for our sins, but through is resurrection conquered him who held the power of death and death itself, which means all who have passed on are freed from the grips of death.
Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil— and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death.Hebrews 2:14-15
It's the greatest rescue mission of all time, 100% successful.
Last edited by pcamps; 12-31-2010 at 09:09 AM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
