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personally I think we're all going to get drawn into a black hole in the rapture, stephen hawking will be left behind to explain it all,and ppl will buy it.
In Allen's defense, your interpretation is in error. You said it "the trick" is you trying to turn a straightforward scripture into something it is not. We all know what "caught up" means, we all know what the "clouds" are, and we all know what "air" is. Don't be so dang condescending and try and make others believe something that you've concocted in your own mind. Nowhere in that scripture does it say anything about being "permanently suspended". That is something that you read into it that isn't even there. I get sick and tired of people twisting scriptures to suit their own liking, if you don't like what it says then let's just "spiritualize" it and make it say something else. Bullcrap.
Ilene,
You are off tangent.
When you see a phrase in scripture, you should look up other scriptures to fully understand the meaning of that phase. The term 'caught up' is clearly not understood by many 'christians' and to help your understanding I offered Rev 12:5-6, where the child was caught up to God and to his throne. There is only one correct interpretation in these matters. I pointed out to you that one of the reasons Christ was disbelieved in his first advent was the fact Elijah was expected to descend from the clouds, literally. That didn't happen as Elijah came in the form of John the Baptist. More than 2000 years later, its funny to note that people are still awaiting Christ to come from the clouds.
In Acts chapter 1, the two angels told the disciples not to bother, that this same Jesus will come back in a like manner as you have seen him go up. What manner did he go up? They saw him go up as a human being, so he'll come back as a human being. He'll be born just like you and I, and like he was born in his first advent. This was seen by Isaiah 9:5-7, and Rev 12:5-6. If you read that portion well, you'll notice that the angels queried their looking up into the SKY. If he would come from the sky, there would have been no need to query their looking up. Till doomsday nobody will descend from the sky! Lets assume that he comes in the sky, how will a guy in Australia raptured meet with a guy in London who was also raptured? This is false doctrine and not from the Holy Spirit. I need to remind you that Christ always told his disciples that he came down from heaven. Did anybody see him come down? Where is heaven? You think it is the Sky? You must be kidding!
God is always said to come with 'clouds'. Read the Bible very well, it is an appreciation of his power and mystery. The verse in question said to be caught up in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Shall we ever be with him in the sky? What happens on earth? Does the air exclude the earth?
the only thing I would say is that God promised Abraham as many descendents as there are stars in the sky,and as many as there are in the dust in the earth.
Given what we know of the vast cosmos now...are we there yet?? It seems we would still have quite a ways to go?
the earth pop. is going to reach 7 billion soon.idk how many ppl have been born in all as of now,but it's an interesting question,imo.
what's the estimate of the no. of stars in the sky? I would presume they would also include those unseen,as Abraham could not have possibly been privy to veiwing 7 billion + stars in the night sky.
is it even possible for one planet to produce one person equal to every single star in the sky?
my only other thought is that God included the Millenium in that count as well...who knows how many will be born then.
any thoughts,facts or figures?
no. of stars in the sky vs. no of humans born since Abraham's time. (?)
the scientific estimate of stars in our universe is 1000 billion billion,if thats any help
When you see a phrase in scripture, you should look up other scriptures to fully understand the meaning of that phase. The term 'caught up' is clearly not understood by many 'christians' and to help your understanding I offered Rev 12:5-6, where the child was caught up to God and to his throne. There is only one correct interpretation in these matters. I pointed out to you that one of the reasons Christ was disbelieved in his first advent was the fact Elijah was expected to descend from the clouds, literally. That didn't happen as Elijah came in the form of John the Baptist. More than 2000 years later, its funny to note that people are still awaiting Christ to come from the clouds.
1 Corinthians 1:7 Therefore you do not lack any spiritual gift as you eagerly wait for our Lord Jesus Christ to be revealed.
Romans 8:19 The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed.
Galatians 5:5 But by faith we eagerly await through the Spirit the righteousness for which we hope.
Philippians 3:20 But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ,
That is why we wait!!! How dare you ridicule us when God commands us to. How dare you call yourself a Christian.
You completely disregarded several things I was going to point out in the first place. You know, at first, I thought perhaps you were a Christian that did not see or understand how the rapture could take place. Now I know your blatantly, out of the will of your own heart, deciding to ignorant the word of God. You really don't think Jesus can rapture us out of here? You must be forgetting that God raptured Enoch from the Earth to heaven and he NEVER saw death!!!!
Genesis 5:24 Enoch walked with God; then he was no more, because God took him away.
Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death; he could not be found, because God had taken him away. For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God.
2 Kings 2:1 When the LORD was about to take Elijah up to heaven in a whirlwind, Elijah and Elisha were on their way from Gilgal.
2 Kings 2:11 As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind.
ENOCH'S RAPTURE WAS POINTED OUT 4 TIMES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!And you have COMPLETELY disregarded biblical prophecy that has taken place!! The fact that God said Israel would become a nation again in one day which it did back in 1948 is one of the main events that sets off all other events in the last days!!!!!! Let's look at even more scripture that proves there is a rapture!!
Matthew 16:28 I tell you the truth, fore they see the Sosome who are standing here will not taste death ben of Man coming in his kingdom.
SOME WILL NOT TASTE DEATH!!! HOW WOULD WE NOT TASTE DEATH WHEN ACCORDING TO SOME PEOPLE THE CHURCH WOULD GO THROUGH THE TRIBULATION AND BE BEHEADED OR DIE FROM THE NATURAL DISASTERS OR FAMINES THAT WILL STRIKE?!!!!!!
Quote:
Till doomsday nobody will descend from the sky!
1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Wow. Talk about ignorance!
Quote:
Lets assume that he comes in the sky, how will a guy in Australia raptured meet with a guy in London who was also raptured? This is false doctrine and not from the Holy Spirit.
What do you mean?!! We are all going to meet in the same place!! It doesn't matter where in the world we are raptured! We all believe in Jesus Christ and will be coming home to our heavenly abode!! Heaven is as diverse as America FYI!!!
And you think someone from Australia cannot be raptured up with someone from London?! Oh really?!!!!!!
Matthew 24:31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
Psalm 107:2 Let the redeemed of the LORD say this--those he redeemed from the hand of the foe. Those he gathered from the lands, from east and west, from north and south.
Zechariah 8:7 This is what the LORD Almighty says: "I will save my people from the countries of the east and the west.
Like I said. It doesn't take a rocket scientist!!! Let's take a look at even more scripture that says Jesus will save us from a "wrath" of the father!
1 Thessalonians 1:10 and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead--Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath.
Romans 5:9 Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him!
Quote:
I need to remind you that Christ always told his disciples that he came down from heaven. Did anybody see him come down? Where is heaven? You think it is the Sky? You must be kidding!
No. You must be kidding yourself. We all know Heaven isn't in the sky. Otherwise we would have seen it! But we know it's in a higher plane of existence. Most likely in another dimension. But God points out that it is "up" somewhere. Or else Jesus wouldn't have to descend "down" from it!!!
For some reason, maybe it's just me, but I can tell right now that not only are you not ready for the return of the Lord, but it looks to me like you don't really want him to come. You don't want to be saved. From your words, what I've gotten is that you want to be left behind. God will gave you exactly what you desire if you keep testing him. When he says he's coming soon, that's exactly what he means. When he says we should be watching, that's exactly what he means. When he says he will spit out the lukewarm, that's exactly what he means. You need to get ready because time is up. The sign of the times are all around the world.
Do you realize there is NOTHING holding Jesus back from returning?! I don't understand why would you not watch, not repent, and then when he returns, you end up being left behind and go into depression and a coma because you didn't believe. That is terrible!! It's going to be especially terrible for the people that call themselves Christian and worship Jesus!! Unrepentant hearts and minds and not watching for the Lord's return and involving themselves in "worldly" matters and issues instead of looking for their treasures in Heaven. Just SAD!! Marlbron, I'm not trying to threaten you or whatever you think. I'm just warning you that your making a BIG mistake as a child of God that you REFUSE to watch for his return and turn from your ways. Your going to pay a big price for that!!
Last edited by Miss Blue; 01-08-2011 at 03:46 PM..
1 Corinthians 1:7 Therefore you do not lack any spiritual gift as you eagerly wait for our Lord Jesus Christ to be revealed.
Romans 8:19 The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed.
Galatians 5:5 But by faith we eagerly await through the Spirit the righteousness for which we hope.
Philippians 3:20 But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ,
That is why we wait!!! How dare you ridicule us when God commands us to. How dare you call yourself a Christian.
You completely disregarded several things I was going to point out in the first place. You know, at first, I thought perhaps you were a Christian that did not see or understand how the rapture could take place. Now I know your blatantly, out of the will of your own heart, deciding to ignorant the word of God. You really don't think Jesus can rapture us out of here? You must be forgetting that God raptured Enoch from the Earth to heaven and he NEVER saw death!!!!
Genesis 5:24 Enoch walked with God; then he was no more, because God took him away.
Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death; he could not be found, because God had taken him away. For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God.
2 Kings 2:1 When the LORD was about to take Elijah up to heaven in a whirlwind, Elijah and Elisha were on their way from Gilgal.
2 Kings 2:11 As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind.
ENOCH'S RAPTURE WAS POINTED OUT 4 TIMES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!And you have COMPLETELY disregarded biblical prophecy that has taken place!! The fact that God said Israel would become a nation again in one day which it did back in 1948 is one of the main events that sets off all other events in the last days!!!!!! Let's look at even more scripture that proves there is a rapture!!
Matthew 16:28 I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.
SOME WILL NOT TASTE DEATH!!! HOW WOULD WE NOT TASTE DEATH WHEN ACCORDING TO SOME PEOPLE THE CHURCH WOULD GO THROUGH THE TRIBULATION AND BE BEHEADED OR DIE FROM THE NATURAL DISASTERS OR FAMINES THAT WILL STRIKE?!!!!!!
1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Wow. Talk about ignorance!
What do you mean?!! We are all going to meet in the same place!! It doesn't matter where in the world we are raptured! We all believe in Jesus Christ and will be coming home to our heavenly abode!! Heaven is as diverse as America FYI!!!
And you think someone from Australia cannot be raptured up with someone from London?! Oh really?!!!!!!
Matthew 24:31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
Psalm 107:2 Let the redeemed of the LORD say this--those he redeemed from the hand of the foe. Those he gathered from the lands, from east and west, from north and south.
Zechariah 8:7 This is what the LORD Almighty says: "I will save my people from the countries of the east and the west.
Like I said. It doesn't take a rocket scientist!!! Let's take a look at even more scripture that says Jesus will save us from a "wrath" of the father!
1 Thessalonians 1:10 and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead--Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath.
Romans 5:9 Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him!
No. You must be kidding yourself. We all know Heaven isn't in the sky. Otherwise we would have seen it! But we know it's in a higher plane of existence. Most likely in another dimension. But God points out that it is "up" somewhere. Or else Jesus wouldn't have to descend "down" from it!!!
For some reason, maybe it's just me, but I can tell right now that not only are you not ready for the return of the Lord, but it looks to me like you don't really want him to come. You don't want to be saved. From your words, what I've gotten is that you want to be left behind. God will gave you exactly what you desire if you keep testing him. When he says he's coming soon, that's exactly what he means. When he says we should be watching, that's exactly what he means. When he says he will spit out the lukewarm, that's exactly what he means. You need to get ready because time is up. The sign of the times are all around the world.
Do you realize there is NOTHING holding Jesus back from returning?! I don't understand why would you not watch, not repent, and then when he returns, you end up being left behind and go into depression and a coma because you didn't believe. That is terrible!! It's going to be especially terrible for the people that call themselves Christian and worship Jesus!! Unrepentant hearts and minds and not watching for the Lord's return and involving themselves in "worldly" matters and issues instead of looking for their treasures in Heaven. Just SAD!! Marlbron, I'm not trying to threaten you or whatever you think. I'm just warning you that your making a BIG mistake as a child of God that you REFUSE to watch for his return and turn from your ways. Your going to pay a big price for that!!
My dear friend. Let me take you back to Enoch and Elijah. These two did not suffer death -yes, but they like everybody else were translated. Physical death on earth is just a form of translation. Do you imagine that at some point in their journey upwards that they did not shed their physical bodies? The same applies to Jesus. If you read carefully the story of his ascension, as he ascended, the cloud received him out of their sight. Do you imagine he kept traveling like a projectile into outer space and voila into a planet called heaven? He translated into a spirit being.
God never promised us rapture as a gift for salvation. We are promised to inherit the earth - to reign as kings and princes on earth. Everything is to happen here. That was why God has now made the kingdom of this world to be the Kingdom of Jehovah God and His Christ and they shall reign and reign for ever more.
Once that blood was shed, the earth became a fit place again for God.
It is curious that Christ never referred to Enoch's ascension as something believers would get. He only preached a gospel of the Kingdom of God and eternal life. He told us that as a believer you will meet with tribulation, but not for 'christians' who hope to escape the tribulation into the sky.
Welll, its not likely you change your beliefs, but I hope you remember my message: No RAPTURE.
Quote:
Matthew 16:28 I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.
SOME WILL NOT TASTE DEATH!!! HOW WOULD WE NOT TASTE DEATH WHEN ACCORDING TO SOME PEOPLE THE CHURCH WOULD GO THROUGH THE TRIBULATION AND BE BEHEADED OR DIE FROM THE NATURAL DISASTERS OR FAMINES THAT WILL STRIKE?!!!!!!
Again you have not understood the scripture. 6 days after he made the statement, he showed them a vision of the kingdom in the famous transformation. That part of scripture was fulfilled in Christ's lifetime
Quote:
For some reason, maybe it's just me, but I can tell right now that not only are you not ready for the return of the Lord, but it looks to me like you don't really want him to come. You don't want to be saved. From your words, what I've gotten is that you want to be left behind. God will gave you exactly what you desire if you keep testing him. When he says he's coming soon, that's exactly what he means. When he says we should be watching, that's exactly what he means. When he says he will spit out the lukewarm, that's exactly what he means. You need to get ready because time is up. The sign of the times are all around the world.
The Lord has already returned. That's going by what he says in the scripture. He says this generation shall not perish before his return. He has returned unless he is a liar. A generation is 2000 years, so if he has not come then we should not believe him. The question is will you know him? Will he answer the former name? Do some research. However, his REVELATION will take the world by storm. Read Rev 6 1-end. The day of his revelation is known only to the FATHER.
IN the days of Noah, those that were taken were those that were destroyed by the flood. Those that were left behind were those who were spared destruction , ditto for Sodom. mathew 24
The coming wrath will not affect the children of God, because they have been sealed with the seal of God. The angels of God who will do the destruction will passover them. Their escape from destruction is not because they are carried off to the sky.
Last edited by Miss Blue; 01-08-2011 at 03:57 PM..
1 Corinthians 1:7 Therefore you do not lack any spiritual gift as you eagerly wait for our Lord Jesus Christ to be revealed.
Romans 8:19 The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed.
Galatians 5:5 But by faith we eagerly await through the Spirit the righteousness for which we hope.
Philippians 3:20 But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ,
That is why we wait!!! How dare you ridicule us when God commands us to. How dare you call yourself a Christian.
You completely disregarded several things I was going to point out in the first place. You know, at first, I thought perhaps you were a Christian that did not see or understand how the rapture could take place. Now I know your blatantly, out of the will of your own heart, deciding to ignorant the word of God. You really don't think Jesus can rapture us out of here? You must be forgetting that God raptured Enoch from the Earth to heaven and he NEVER saw death!!!!
Genesis 5:24 Enoch walked with God; then he was no more, because God took him away.
Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death; he could not be found, because God had taken him away. For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God.
2 Kings 2:When the LORD was about to take Elijah1up to heaven in a whirlwind, Elijah and Elisha were on their way from Gilgal.
2 Kings 2:11 As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind.
ENOCH'S RAPTURE WAS POINTED OUT 4 TIMES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!And you have COMPLETELY disregarded biblical prophecy that has taken place!! The fact that God said Israel would become a nation again in one day which it did back in 1948 is one of the main events that sets off all other events in the last days!!!!!! Let's look at even more scripture that proves there is a rapture!!
Matthew 16:28 I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.
SOME WILL NOT TASTE DEATH!!! HOW WOULD WE NOT TASTE DEATH WHEN ACCORDING TO SOME PEOPLE THE CHURCH WOULD GO THROUGH THE TRIBULATION AND BE BEHEADED OR DIE FROM THE NATURAL DISASTERS OR FAMINES THAT WILL STRIKE?!!!!!!
1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Wow. Talk about ignorance!
What do you mean?!! We are all going to meet in the same place!! It doesn't matter where in the world we are raptured! We all believe in Jesus Christ and will be coming home to our heavenly abode!! Heaven is as diverse as America FYI!!!
And you think someone from Australia cannot be raptured up with someone from London?! Oh really?!!!!!!
Matthew 24:31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
Psalm 107:2 Let the redeemed of the LORD say this--those he redeemed from the hand of the foe. Those he gathered from the lands, from east and west, from north and south.
Zechariah 8:7 This is what the LORD Almighty says: "I will save my people from the countries of the east and the west.
Like I said. It doesn't take a rocket scientist!!! Let's take a look at even more scripture that says Jesus will save us from a "wrath" of the father!
1 Thessalonians 1:10 and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead--Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath.
Romans 5:9 Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him!
No. You must be kidding yourself. We all know Heaven isn't in the sky. Otherwise we would have seen it! But we know it's in a higher plane of existence. Most likely in another dimension. But God points out that it is "up" somewhere. Or else Jesus wouldn't have to descend "down" from it!!!
For some reason, maybe it's just me, but I can tell right now that not only are you not ready for the return of the Lord, but it looks to me like you don't really want him to come. You don't want to be saved. From your words, what I've gotten is that you want to be left behind. God will gave you exactly what you desire if you keep testing him. When he says he's coming soon, that's exactly what he means. When he says we should be watching, that's exactly what he means. When he says he will spit out the lukewarm, that's exactly what he means. You need to get ready because time is up. The sign of the times are all around the world.
Do you realize there is NOTHING holding Jesus back from returning?! I don't understand why would you not watch, not repent, and then when he returns, you end up being left behind and go into depression and a coma because you didn't believe. That is terrible!! It's going to be especially terrible for the people that call themselves Christian and worship Jesus!! Unrepentant hearts and minds and not watching for the Lord's return and involving themselves in "worldly" matters and issues instead of looking for their treasures in Heaven. Just SAD!! Marlbron, I'm not trying to threaten you or whatever you think. I'm just warning you that your making a BIG mistake as a child of God that you REFUSE to watch for his return and turn from your ways. Your going to pay a big price for that!!
certainly you can still be red hot and love Jesus and God, keep their commandments,and not believe they would send ppl to hell,all at the same time.
Last edited by Miss Blue; 01-08-2011 at 04:01 PM..
I think June and I have made it clear in this and other threads that the red font is reserved for moderation purposes.
Next I may delete the post instead of spending so much time "repainting"..Thank you
If you must Miss Blue! Your call! Personally, I have no qualms about it. I said what I needed to say and I think most members of the forum will remember it for future use and reference. So I'm pretty much finished with it. I'd much prefer if you locked it so people can find it after the rapture, but again, your call! And sorry about the red font! I didn't know!
Yes people!! Something tells me this is the year!! Jesus said we would not know the day nor the hour but he never said we couldn't know the season!!
1948 (beginning of prophetic timeline when Israel became a nation) + 70 years (a generation) = 2018 (second coming of Christ) - 7 (years of tribulation) = 2011( the rapture of the church)!!!! I'm not 100% but I think it is!!!!
Get your houses in order, repent for your sins, and pray that you are counted worthy to escape with him because he is returning!! You don't want to be left behind!! Disasters and catastrophes will keep happening and the ungodly world will keep wondering why. But we as children of God know why! I don't know about you guys but I feel like we are in on some huge secret that the abominable world knows nothing about! Yes, I am awaiting that special day we take out very last flight in the sky. How amazing! Do you wonder what it will feel like our last day on Earth?! I can't even imagine what day that is or what it will feel like! I do figure that before he returns, it will be a dark and cloudy day full of thunderstorms. Probably a worldwide thunderstorm. Based on testimonies I have heard, many people have said that in their visions they saw dark black clouds and a funnel formed for the saints to be raptured in. How exciting is that?!
You know, usually I give no credence or attention to prophecized dates or years such as May 21, 2011. But I was recently watching a video where an old man was pointing out this simple prophetical timeline I failed to miss all these years. It's so simple and easy and most importantly makes total sense. The prophecized events are already happening. BEEN happening. So there's nothing left to my knowledge that would stop Jesus from coming. Perhaps God is waiting for more unsaved to come to him before he tells Jesus it's time. I don't know. Your guess is as good as mine. But we need to be ready. Our families need to be ready. We need to spread the word! I urge you to search the internet for various testimonies on Christians on who had visions and dreams of the rapture. There's something to learn from each testimony. And the common theme is that Jesus is returning soon. As a Christian, you cannot forget this basic golden rule he said to watch for. We DO NOT want to be left behind. God bless to you all!!
Hey! Isn't this my department?????
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But I was recently watching a video where an old man was pointing out this simple prophetical timeline I failed to miss all these years. It's so simple and easy and most importantly makes total sense. The prophecized events are already happening. BEEN happening. So there's nothing left to my knowledge that would stop Jesus from coming. Perhaps God is waiting for more unsaved to come to him before he tells Jesus it's time. I don't know. Your guess is as good as mine. But we need to be ready. Our families need to be ready. We need to spread the word! I urge you to search the internet for various testimonies on Christians on who had visions and dreams of the rapture. There's something to learn from each testimony. And the common theme is that Jesus is returning soon. As a Christian, you cannot forget this basic golden rule he said to watch for. We DO NOT want to be left behind. God bless to you all!!