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1--God would know the fate of a living entity before they even came here,so if their fate was eternal hell then he wouldnt have created them in the first place.
2--God is full of mercy.not just partially but fully.
3--God is tolerant. He has an unlimited amount of the stuff.
4--God beleives in justice,and no crime fits an eternal punishment,it would be like torturing someone for their whole life for robbing a grape,at least the torture would end,so you couldnt even compare this punishment to what God is supposidly goin to do.
5-Jesus' words-''forgive them father ,they dont know what they are doing'',shows that God can forgive,if Jesus didnt beleive this then He ouldnt have askes,an the fact that he knew that our sins are commited only out of ignorance,ignorance of our true selves which are eternally full of bliss and knowledge.
6-Jesus' words-''what you reap,so shall you so'',so punishment only comes with what is just,we ill be punished according to our crimes,and no crime deserves eternal punishment,for their would be nothig good to come out of it and nothing learned.
7--Jesus' words--''easy to love your freind but to love thy enemy?''-no if Jesus is a representation of god then why do you think He'd say that if God didnt beleive in it Himself,God loves all including His enemys,he might treat them different to teach them,but to torture them forever,that just dont fit the boot!
8--its damn right satanic--torture is considered among the world as evil,even in wars torture is banned,hitler tortured some of his captured enemys,but at least the torture ended,so to think that God would torture someone for eternity would be branding Him as worse than any evil demon that ever entered the planet.
9--anyone who dosent beleive must burn!!!!!!!!!!!!..,this concept must be the worst and most easy to see through,after all their are many wo will never even hear of Jesus,and why would god have created life with so many diverse customs,so that they would differ from christianity.
10--God is Love--Love wuldnt have anything to do with torturing people forever,it is the opposite,Love only Loves,and He wants everybody in on all that heavenly glory,but we have to find it ourselves,through Him,He is the emodiement of Pure Transcendental Love,ecstatic bliss,we are the parts of the whole and he is the whole,we are the children he is the father,no father ould have even one of their sons or daughters burn forever,and its not like He couldnt do anything about it after all He is All Powerfull,so think again folks who still beleive in this concept,a concept that was handed down for the purpose of power through fear,something that im sure god had nothing to do with,or maybe He did just to test ones intelligence,and one's opinion of Him,the charachter of God the Supreme Person,,what is He really like!!!!!!!!!!!!!!aan unjust punisher or a real freind of all living entity's who is impartial to all.
Last edited by Miss Blue; 01-10-2011 at 09:17 AM..
Reason: LOL Twin, I posted in the wrong thread! Where's my coffee?
No one receives Christ as Savior without first wanting to have a personal relationship with Him.
Obviously He died for our sins. He died for the sins of the entire world. As I have said a few times now, our personal sins were transferred to Christ and He paid the penalty for them.
A person is saved because they place their faith in Christ. A part of understanding the gospel is understanding that Christ died for you personally. He died for everyone.
Ther is not one single case when Jesus met a single person one on one and said to them there's a choice to be made,
Jesus told Nicodemus, ''You must be born again''(John 3:7). ''that whoever believes may in Him (Jesus speaking of Himself) have eternal life'' (John 3:15). ''He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God''(John 3:18).
And whether you like it or not, with those words Jesus was telling Nicodemous, 'theres a choice to be made.'
And everytime anyone reads those words in the Bible in John chapter 3, Jesus is telling them one on one that there's a choice to be made.
You might come back and say, ''No, that's not what it means.'' To which I answer in advance, ''Yes, that is exactly what it means.''
Quote:
without fail 100% of the time all who Jesus met on a one to one basis believed. When Jesus turns up at our door, there's only one conclusion "Lord i believe". I challenge you to prove this to be wrong.
Judas Iscariot spent three years with Jesus but He never believed in Him as Savior. Judas Iscariot died as an unbeliever and is in Hades today.
Matthew 26:24 “The Son of Man is to go just as it is written of Him. But woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had not been born”
John 17:12 “While I was with them, I was keeping them in Thy name which Thou hast given Me; and I guarded them, and not one of them perished but the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.”
In John 6:70, Jesus asked the rhetorical question to His twelve apostles, "Jesus answered them, ''Did I myself not choose you, the twelve, and yet one of you is a devil?''
Luke 22:3 'And Satan entered into Judas who was called Iscariot...' Satan cannot indwell a believer. Influence a believer, yes. But he cannot indwell a believers body. Judas was fully possessed by Satan at the end. John 13:27 'And after the morsel, Satan then entered into him. Jesus therefore said to him, ''What you must do, do quickly.''
John 6:64 ''But there are some of you who do not believe.'' For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him.'
Now you might ask how Judas could perform miracles if he was an unbeliever. Look at Matthew 7:21 ''Not everyone who says to Me, ''Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven; but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven. 22] ''Many will say to Me on that day, ''Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name perform many miracles?'' 23] ''And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; Depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.'' Jesus will declare as lawless, those who performed miracles in His name. But Jesus will say to them that He never knew them because they never trusted Him for their personal salvation.
This business about folk rejecting gifts is ridiculous. Jesus said to the woman at the well “IF you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water.”
Do you see that Latte "if you knew the gift of God" , we would ask.
Folk are not accepting Jesus on any basis apart from not knowing the gift of God.
Jesus knew that the Samaritan woman (John chapter 4) would be positive at the point of Gospel hearing.
In contrast with the Samaritan woman, Jesus told the unbelieving Jews who sought to kill Him, John 5:40 ''and you are unwilling to come to Me, that you may have life.''
YOU ARE UNWILLING!!! YOU ARE UNWILLING!!! YOU ARE UNWILLING!!!YOU! Of your own volition are choosing not to come to Jesus Christ for salvation. YOUR CHOICE!!! YOUR DECISION!!!
And NO, you do not take any credit for your decision to come to Christ. Faith is non-meritorous. Christ did the work for salvation and He offers the free gift of salvation to all. Each individual must decide if he will simply reach out and take the gift through faith in Christ or if he will reject Christ.
In Acts 7:51 Stephen told the Counsel before which he stood, ''You men who are stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears are always RESISTING the Holy Spirit; you are doing just as your fathers did.
He never told Nicodemus he had to chose to be born again. You have not answered the challenge of showing by scripture that when Jesus met anyone on a one to one basis he presented them with a choice. You can't do it because it is not in the scripture. The truth of the matter is, all who Jesus met on this level, were already being drawn to him by the Holy Spirit, and not by choice, and this is why whenever Jesus met anyone on a one to one basis , they believed in him 100% of the time, without hesitation.
You think Mike that you have it all worked out, far from it,it's God who has got it all worked out and accomplishes all that He has worked out. Doesn't that make you glad and want to rejoice ?.
So Mike, you are saying an unbeliever is to believe Christ died for them personally AND believe He died for everyone? Please verify.
I am saying that you must place your trust, your faith, in Christ Jesus as your own personal Savior. He died for the sins of the world. He died for you personally. He died for every person in the world personally.
He never told Nicodemus he had to chose to be born again. You have not answered the challenge of showing by scripture that when Jesus met anyone on a one to one basis he presented them with a choice. You can't do it because it is not in the scripture. The truth of the matter is, all who Jesus met on this level, were already being drawn to him by the Holy Spirit, and not by choice, and this is why whenever Jesus met anyone on a one to one basis , they believed in him 100% of the time, without hesitation.
You think Mike that you have it all worked out, far from it,it's God who has got it all worked out and accomplishes all that He has worked out. Doesn't that make you glad and want to rejoice ?.
You're playing with words. I am not interested in your challenge though I have answered it. I am flat out telling you that as the Scriptures declare, You must make a personal decision to believe in Christ for salvation.
He most certainly did tell Nicodemus that he had to make a choice. Oh, he may not have said those exact words, but anyone who has any comprehension ability at all, and who is at least a little bit honest with themself will understand that if (and you do) must believe in Christ for salvation, that a choice must be made. Either you will believe or you will not. You must decide if you want a personal relationship with Jesus Christ or not.
Now refer back to the very bottom of post #163, and let it sink in. I'll make this clear for you pcamps. What I said in that post is for whoever cares for the truth. I have no interest in going back and forth with those who are determined to keep their eyes closed
Here is what I said at the bottom of that post.
In contrast with the Samaritan woman, Jesus told the unbelieving Jews who sought to kill Him, John 5:40 ''and you are unwilling to come to Me, that you may have life.''
YOU ARE UNWILLING!!! YOU ARE UNWILLING!!! YOU ARE UNWILLING!!! YOU! Of your own volition are choosing not to come to Jesus Christ for salvation. YOUR CHOICE!!! YOUR DECISION!!!
And NO, you do not take any credit for your decision to come to Christ. Faith is non-meritorous. Christ did the work for salvation and He offers the free gift of salvation to all. Each individual must decide if he will simply reach out and take the gift through faith in Christ or if he will reject Christ.
In Acts 7:51 Stephen told the Counsel before which he stood, ''You men who are stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears are always RESISTING the Holy Spirit; you are doing just as your fathers did.
Moderator cut: off topic and insulting to other posters
Last edited by Miss Blue; 01-10-2011 at 11:29 AM..
The mentality of the christian is beyond belief at times. We have convinced ourselves that only few will be saved , and this is our starting point in interpreting scripture and rejecting any notion that we could well be wrong.
This is a trustworthy saying worthy of full acceptance
You christians who have a few saved mentality cannot possibly believe this trustworthy saying worthy of full acceptance quoted below. You actually believe he's the savior of the few, you cannot be double minded and believe he's the savior of all men, and he's the savior of a few.
This is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance (and for this we labor and strive), that we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe. Command and teach these things. 1 Tim 4:9-11
All the characters who Jesus met on a personal basis, believed in an instance, not one of them was challenged to make a choice by Jesus. The light of the glorious gospel shone in their hearts and they believed. This decision making and choosing Jesus is a lie. Any person who has ever uttered these words "Lord i believe", as done so from the work of the holy spirit, who works in our hearts prior to that confession. He makes known to us the riches of his kindness displayed to the world through his son Jesus,he is patient and tolerant towards us in this process of making himself known to us. and leaves us without doubt that truely he is the son of God and our Savior.
Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness leads you toward repentance?
For God, who said, "Let light shine out of darkness," made his light shine inour hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.
You see Mike God does something in our hearts, that gives.
Jesus told Nicodemus, ''You must be born again''(John 3:7). ''that whoever believes may in Him (Jesus speaking of Himself) have eternal life'' (John 3:15). ''He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God''(John 3:18).
I'm curious how you interpret John 3:18 - certainly all of us did not believe at one point therefore we were "judgedalready".
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