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yeah i like that legoman,,,,,,,,,,,,,just imagine(and i dont think this is in the bible but however)everyone is potentially a freind and at some stage in the spiritual eternal universe we were all freinds/brothers and sisters.it is only through ignorance and the forgetfullness of our true spirits that we have become spiritually polluted,and have forgotten our constitutional position as eternal beings filled with joy/bliss and knowledege.
its like being in a sleep and we are dreaming,but if someone hits you a slap while they are sleeping,you dont hold it against them,you realise that each and every person,doing either good or bad are actually spirits originating from god,that are just lost,so yes the wickedness can be destroyed and turned to rightousness,because wickedness comes from ignorance and rightousness comes from truth.
EXCELLENT!
I've got to repeat it...
Wickedness comes from IGNORANCE. Righteousness comes from TRUTH.
and we know that...HIS will is for ALL MEN to come to the knowledge of TRUTH.
To me, annihilation, at least, is one step out of darkness... take one more additional step though and come into the full brilliant light which gives God FULL glory. Not partial glory.
ET = NO glory, ZERO honor. and in fact, MUCH DISHONOR to be attributed to the Creator. Lots of glory to man for making the right choice.
Annihilation = Partial Glory to God. Failure. Lots of glory to MAN for making the right choice.
Universal Reconciliation = FULL glory to God. God's perfect plan for mankind. Look what GOD has done. Not what WE have done. ALL glory to GOD. No wonder every knee will bow and every tongue will swear allegiance. No wonder! What HIS love has accomplished for us.
Annihilation and ET have something in common. They both put man on a pedestal where he doesn't belong. It says that mankind has more power than he really has. We are the clay, He is the potter. As in Adam, ALL die. So in Christ, all shall live.
Annihilation, if you really look at it, isn't as merciful or humble as you might think. There is a self-serving aspect that is on the wide road to destruction.. "Look... what *I* have done..."
no. Look what God has done.
For us ALL.
Just thinking aloud..
peace,
sparrow
and i have to admit sparrow,that a good well thought out perspective,give the glory to God,were only learning,like little kids,i think humility is a the only way to aproach God anyway,even in Vedic literatures the greatest of demigods aproached God with humbleness,considering themselves,even with all their God givin power,nothing but a speck of dust at his feet.also the Vaishnava devotees would start their prayers in the morning,bye asking God to make them as humble as the straw on the street,
i know your a christian so i dont know what that means to you,i just beleive /god is un limited,and has unlimited forms,so its easy for me to take truth and beauty from any religion,including christianity,and i have to say that if it were not for you guys uRers as yas are called,i would have completley lost faith in the christian view altogether,so fair play to yas,im sure Jesus and His father would be proud of yas,
although i do see a slight problem with one aspect of the UR's beleifs but i will leave that for another thread.
Wickedness comes from IGNORANCE. Righteousness comes from TRUTH.
and we know that...HIS will is for ALL MEN to come to the knowledge of TRUTH.
Now THAT is something to sing about.
well the way i see it sparrow,when i ask myself is,what would God actually want,and i realy beleive ,because he's so good,that He wants everybody in on all that heavenly glory,he wants to share his beautiful Love which is constantly growing,expanding,gettin better bye the moment,how can it slow down or stop,it is pure bliss and it is eternal and eternall y getting better,and if He wants everyone to have,which i beleive He does,then it WILL be done,because no one can stop God from HIS WILL,if HE wants it it WILL happen.
hes just tryin to teach us how to get back though because if e are not pure then we are not ready,time will teach us all.but if also if He wants to make exceptions and just transfer people back,then whos to stop Him either.
If you repent while you sin - you haven't really repented. Just an observation.
I agree!
It could also be re-worded this way: "if you sin while repenting, you haven't really repented".
It's like going 100mph down a city street, while saying "God please forgive me for speeding"
Repentence means ceasing from sin...sinning no more. Stop sinning first, then ask God for forgiveness...
I was unsaved earlier in my life and reading this post would be a turnoff. Preaching brimstone and fire will send the unsaved fleeing. Save them with Jesus's commandment - love. Scaring people into beings work anymore, especially this day in age. I mean all this with respect.
So...there are those who fervently believe but interpret in error Scripture, teaching that all who die unrepentant sinners will all suffer the same punishment...that being - eternal waves of flames forever burning them and tormenting them all...and then there are those who rightly divide the word concerning this matter and understand through correct interpretation that this is a lie from the pit of hell...just another one of Satan's tools to instill fear into the hearts of man and draw them COMPLETELY! away from being all they could be in Him...and it has worked wonderfully for him...satan...only he doesn't care about you...he's just revelling in the fact that you have totally left ALL TRUTH! because of this one BIG! FAT! lie!
My purpose for today is to spread a little "SON-shine" on this subject!!!...AMEN?...AMEN!!!
Let's begin, shall we....?...
Matthew 25:41 Then shall He say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from Me, ye *cursed* [and *THESE* shall go away into everlasting punishment..."], into everlasting fire [it is the fire here that is described as everlasting, nothing about the everlasting burning and torment of every single person who dies not knowing the LORD], prepared for the devil and his angels. [We know, according to Scripture, that those who have been *marked* by the beast and worship him, the beast and his angels, along with the false prophet...THESE! will suffer everlasting punishment]. It is the punishment which is eternal - the second death is absolutely eternal...(everlasting). No reprieve, no more chances.
Let's look deeper into the above passage (Matt. 25:41) by rightly dividing the Word of God...line upon line...precept upon precept:
In Romans 2:7, it states: "...to those who by perseverance in doing good, *seek* for glory and honor and *immortality*, eternal life;..."
...[according to Romans 2:7, we must *not* be born with an immortal soul that lives on indefinitely, anywhere, UNLESS! God "puts on" immortality (and we know, according to Scripture, that ONLY! God "puts on" immortality to ONLY! those who will abide with Him for all eternity) since we, who by persevering, *seek it*.]...
...and 1 Co 15:53 confirms this, as it states: "For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality." We cannot put on what we (according to you who believe ALL! will live forever in hell...BURNING!!!) already have.
...no one else gets to live eternally, EXCEPT! those to whom God has "put on" immortality...AND!those who are said in Scripture to live eternally tormented with fire and brimstone...which is 1. the beast; 2. his angels; 3. the false prophet, and 4. all those who have the "mark" of the beast on their forehead or hands...who have worshipped the beast. Everyone else dies...they are annihilated...soul dead...done. Not everyone who dies an unbeliever has died with the mark of the beast upon their forehead or hands. Not everyone who dies an unbeliever has died worshipping the beast. Surely we can agree on that...? Right...? Think about the one who died not ever having heard the Name of the LORD, therefore never had a chance to know Him, but neither worship the Beast nor have his mark upon them...
...or think about the one who died whose parents beat them if they EVER! said or did anything that would even hint at them being a believer...and Oh! SO! many more! different circumstances I could mention that would cause someone not to know the Lord and live for Him before they died...is their destiny to be tormented for eternity in flaming, burning waves of fire...? Really...? God forbid! Selah.
...now...let us read on....
Please note...that in Rev 20 it says twice - " *judged*...according to their works". If all are punished with eternal torture it would not be judgement according to their deeds - it would be the same punishment for all.
Go ahead...read this passage!...
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne; and books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of the things which were written in the books, *according to their works*.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead that were in it; and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them: and they were judged every man *according to their works*.
Jesus taught that righteous judgment involved degrees of punishment:
Luke 12:46 the lord of that servant shall come in a day when he expecteth not, and in an hour when he knoweth not, and shall cut him asunder, and appoint his portion with the unfaithful.
Luke 12:47 And that servant, who knew his lord's will, and made not ready, nor did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes;
Luke 12:48 but he that knew not, and did things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes.
Dear soul...most of the people who have ever lived since creation have never even heard of the gospel - much less the Beast of Revelation.
EVERLASTING
Daniel 12:2 And *many* of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, *some* to everlasting life, and *some* to shame and everlasting contempt.
...*some*...not all...only *some*. It doesn't specify in this passage that *all* who awake that don't awake to everlasting life will be tormented eternally in burning fire...only *some* will...*some*.
Matthew 5:29 And shall come forth, *they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life*, and *they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation*
...only *they that have done evil will be resurrected to damnation"...not everyone who dies not knowing or living for the Lord are amongst those who willingly lived evil lives and willingly worshipped the devil...some did not die in that state. Would God punish those with eternal burning fire, who died not knowing Him or living for Him by reason of being held by another under unconscionable circumstances...powerless to change them...? Would that be the "JUST* punishment that our God would require of them...? Yes, they will be punished in the Lake of Fire, for however long it takes God to be satisfied that their punishment matched their OFFENSE...then they would die...their soul would just die, into nothingness...blackness...just as it is when we sleep now...black nothingness...<this is a JUST! reward...this is mercy!!!...from a God of mercy!...annihilation is mercy!
Please, read the following passage...think about what it says...
Revelation 14:9 And the third Angel followed them saying with a loud voice, if any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is powered out without mixture into the cup of His indignation, and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone, in the presence of the holy Angels and the presence of the Lamb:
!!!>>>11 And the smoke of *their* [whose torment...? any man who worshipped the beast and his image, and received his mark in his forehead, or in his hand], torment ascendeth up forever and ever. And *they* [who...? any man who worshipped the beast and his image, and received his mark in his forehead, or in his hand], have no rest day or night, *who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. No where does Scripture say ALL who die not knowing the Lord will burn eternally...NO WHERE does it say All will. NO WHERE. <<<!!!
...but it does say the beast, his angels, the false prophet, and all those who have the mark of the beast and worshipped him will be tormented forever and ever...
Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them, was cast into the Lake of Fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet ARE, and shall be tormented day and night, for ever and ever.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life, was cast into the lake of fire...[this being the "second death"]...
Rev 20:14 "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death."
...so, as I mentioned earlier, yes, all will be thrown into the lake of fire...yes...but no where does it say that ALL who died not knowing the Lord will remain there tormented by fire for all eternity! It just does not say that. You are teaching what you have been taught all your life....a lie...the "immortality of the soul" lie came from heathen Greek philosophy (Plato etc) and crept into the church through people like Augustine...not God!!! and was taught all through every Seminary ever built since then!...on to all of our preachers and pastors and priests!!!...right to your very ears!!!...into your hearts!!!...and there it remains TO-DAY! ...to put fear into the hearts of man...for their "business' bottom line"...for to fill their coffers! Know this...Repent of your sins and STOP! sinning BEFORE you die OR! you will PERISH! <<< as in die...as in soul dead...forever separated from God! It is your choice!...and NOW! is the time!!...for FAITH IS NOW!!! NOW FAITH IS!!! AMEN!
God Bless you!!!!!!!!!
In Christ's love...and prayerfully in His truth!!!
Verna!!!
"The last enemy that shall be destroyed is DEATH."
Sorry to burst your bubble, Verna... I still love you anyways!
To me, annihilation, at least, is one step out of darkness... take one more additional step though and come into the full brilliant light which gives God FULL glory. Not partial glory.
ET = NO glory, ZERO honor. and in fact, MUCH DISHONOR to be attributed to the Creator. Lots of glory to man for making the right choice.
Annihilation = Partial Glory to God. Failure. Lots of glory to MAN for making the right choice.
Universal Reconciliation = FULL glory to God. God's perfect plan for mankind. Look what GOD has done. Not what WE have done. ALL glory to GOD. No wonder every knee will bow and every tongue will swear allegiance. No wonder! What HIS love has accomplished for us.
Annihilation and ET have something in common. They both put man on a pedestal where he doesn't belong. It says that mankind has more power than he really has. We are the clay, He is the potter. As in Adam, ALL die. So in Christ, all shall live.
Annihilation, if you really look at it, isn't as merciful or humble as you might think. There is a self-serving aspect that is on the wide road to destruction.. "Look... what *I* have done..."
no. Look what God has done.
For us ALL.
Just thinking aloud..
peace,
sparrow
Actually, you have taken the heart of man towards God and to each other right out of this equation.
It isn't "look what I have done". It is based upon the choices one makes in their lives, on how they act towards one another.
Why remove the justice of God? You cannot claim an act of Love, 2000 years ago, as the whole basis for salvation of all mankind. He died for each of us. There is another section to it though. Repent. Love. Follow. They must be done, otherwise it is 'bad fruit'.
And if this were the WHOLE case, UR, then this world would not be in the shape it is in, and Christ would ALREADY have come back to right the crooked path.
No, it has to do with each and every one of us, on an individual level. We will be judged, individually, not as a whole creation, as you suggest.
Sorry, but as much as UR sounds lovely,,,it is wrong. Death will be no more, once we put on immortality, and that is only from God Himself who is Immortal.
But those who are dead, both spiritually, and physically without Christ as their Savior, or worthy to be judged based upon their love and faith? They remain dead, forever.
I must apologize for last night, I was overwelmed by the Holy Spirit and felt like I was high or drunk which is weird since I do not abuse drugs or achohol and havent even been in their presence in some time. I am fine now but it was beautiful.
why not stop sinning instead of using Jesus as a skapegoat for your sin.???
on the other hand its easier to ask for forgiveness before you sin'''forgive me father for im about to sin''
LOL, I am a firm believer in "Pray without ceasing" so even when I sin I still pray.
Do you know all your sins? Even the smallest to the largest? I have an addiction to porn that I have prayed daily for release from this sin but God only says "Patience". That is my big sin, what is yours? And please dont think I am attacking because I am not, I am opening up, will you?
I must apologize for last night, I was overwelmed by the Holy Spirit and felt like I was high or drunk which is weird since I do not abuse drugs or achohol and havent even been in their presence in some time. I am fine now but it was beautiful.
the spirit is always willing and waiting to fellowship with you and besides that, you were pre-packaged with a powerful atomic packed alter inside of you that is always waiting and willing. "greater in you..."
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in Him...and it has worked wonderfully for him...satan...only he doesn't care about you...he's just revelling in the fact that you have totally left ALL TRUTH! because of this one BIG! FAT! lie!
on this subject!!!...AMEN?...AMEN!!!
