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Mike - Your whole theology system seems to built around this angelic conflict fantasy of yours that you and other like minded Arminians hold to. It's really the cornerstone of your free-will doctrine and for much of your theology.
That free-will doctrine, in turn, allows you to accept the eternal punishment doctrines taught by the Catholic Church.
All three myths are tied together. You do see that, right?
This "angelic conflict" of your's is a fantasy about God and a fallen angel. Trust me my friend. The potter (God) has power over the clay (all creation, including fallen angels).
Paul, in Eph 6:12 is speaking of the believers conflict with the world system including the religious nonsense you teach concerning God.
The world system is the cosmic system of Satan who is the ruler of this world.
The world is Satan's domain; Job 1:7; 1 Peter 5:8.
Satan is the ruler of this world; John 12:31, 14:30, 16:11.
Satan is the power of the air; Eph 2:2.
Satan influences rulers; 1 Chron 21:1-5.
The link to the angelic conflict has been provided for all to see. Those interested may simply refer to it. Those not interested need not bother.
THIS IS NOT THE TOPIC OF THIS THREAD AND WON'T BE DISCUSSED FURTHER.
As for the clay, 2 Tim 2:20 'Now in a large house there are not only gold and silver vessels, but also vessels of wood and of earthenware, and some to honor and some to dishonor. 21] Therefore, if a man cleanses himself from these things, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified, useful to the master, prepared for every good work. It is the volition of the vessel (person) that determines whether he is a vessel of honor or dishonor.
I've given you enough of my attention for the time being, Alabama.
I've given you enough of my attention for the time being, Alabama.
I'm not here for you Mike, or your attention, you know that... You're a simple tool that allows me opportunity to glorify Jesus and His word. That is the reason for our existence. To glorify God. To glorify Jesus alone. Not as your angelic conflict would have us believe.
Your teachings, albeit non scriptural, are what the scriptures refer to as "strongholds" that are lifted up against the knowledge of God. I simply refute them to glorify Jesus:
2Co 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds
2Co 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
I'm not here for you Mike, or your attention, you know that... You're a simple tool that allows me opportunity to glorify Jesus and His word. That is the reason for our existence. To glorify God. To glorify Jesus alone. Not as your angelic conflict would have us believe.
Your teachings, albeit non scriptural, are what the scriptures refer to as "strongholds" that are lifted up against the knowledge of God. I simply refute them to glorify Jesus:
2Co 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds
2Co 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
I'm sure that you think that calling God the author of sin glorifies God. I'm sure that you think that your belief that a person has to first be given eternal life (being regenerated-being born again) before he can believe the gospel is scriptural. And other Calvinists may agree with you. But Calvinism is about as unscriptural as you can get. Far from Glorifying God, you are in fact blaspheming Him. But you go right on with your crusade.
However, the topic of this thread is not Calvinism.
Last edited by Michael Way; 01-30-2011 at 09:51 AM..
I'm sure that you think that calling God the author of sin glorifies God. I'm sure that you think that your belief that a person has to first be given eternal life (regeneration-being born again) before he can believe the gospel is scriptural. And other Calvinists may agree with you. But Calvinism is a heresy. Far from Glorifying God, you are in fact blaspheming Him.
But you go right on with your crusade.
Excuse me my friend, but no where have I ever said that "God is the author of sin". Those are your words, not mine. When YOU read the scriptures that speak of God's determinate counsel it is YOUR thoughts of blasphemy that arise in YOUR heart, not mine. Those are YOUR thoughts accusing God of being the author of sin, not mine.
What I have given you are scriptures that declare that God works all things according to the counsel of his will.
Eph 1:11 in whom also we did obtain an inheritance, being foreordained according to the purpose of Him who the all things is working according to the counsel of His will,
Here are a few more for you to think through:
Act 2:23 this one, by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, being given out, having taken by lawless hands, having crucified--ye did slay;
Act 3:18 and God, what things before He had declared through the mouth of all His prophets, that the Christ should suffer, He did thus fulfil;
Act 4:27 for gathered together of a truth against Thy holy child Jesus, whom Thou didst anoint, were both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with nations and peoples of Israel,
Act 4:28 to do whatever Thy hand and Thy counsel did determine before to come to pass.
And, that this counsel of His is immutable:
Heb 6:17 in which God, more abundantly willing to shew to the heirs of the promise the immutability of his counsel, did interpose by an oath,
If YOU interpret those scriptures to mean "God is the author of sin", that is your evil heart speaking, not mine.
I cannot speak for other Calvinists, because I'm not a Calvinist. What I can do is give you some information of what historical Calvinism contained in the early Protestant Confessions. A good example is found here in the Westminster Confession of Faith, Chapter 3, articles 1 & 2, with scriptural references:
Chapter III - Of Gods Eternal Decrees
I. God from all eternity did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass: yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin, nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures, nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.
Eph. i. 11; Rom. xi. 33; Heb. vi. 17; Rom. ix. 15, 18; James i. 13, 17; 1 John i. 5; Acts ii. 23; Matt. xvii. 12; Acts iv. 27, 28; John xix. 11; Prov. xvi. 33.
II. Although God knows whatsoever may or can come to pass upon all supposed conditions, yet hath He not decreed anything because He foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions.
Acts xv. 18; 1 Sam. xxiii. 11, 12; Matt. xi. 21, 23; Rom. ix. 11, 13, 16, 18.
That is probably the best historical thought on Calvinism we have today. And, I happen to agree with it. But this does not make me a Calvinist. Far from it. There are many things concerning Calvinism I do not agree with. Namely, reprobation, or the saving of some sinners and passing by of others. I believe that according to scripture God has ordained all sinners, all that were lost in the fall of Adam, to eternal life in Christ.
The Lord is truly good my friend. There is none good but Jesus alone. And Jesus IS NOT the author of sin, as you say. Rather He is the Lord, Our Righteousness.
Jer 23:6 In his days is Judah saved, and Israel dwelleth confidently, And this his name that Jehovah proclaimeth him, `Our Righteousness.'
As for the clay, 2 Tim 2:20 'Now in a large house there are not only gold and silver vessels, but also vessels of wood and of earthenware, and some to honor and some to dishonor. 21] Therefore, if a man cleanses himself from these things, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified, useful to the master, prepared for every good work. It is the volition of the vessel (person) that determines whether he is a vessel of honor or dishonor.
This is speaking of sanctification, "he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified, useful to the master". It is not speaking of the eternal decree of God, and His authority over all His works (as clay), spoken of in Rom 9:21.
Rom 9:21 hath not the potter authority over the clay, out of the same lump to make the one vessel to honour, and the one to dishonour?
If you'll look carefully, the vessels are made out of the same lump of clay. It is the potter, who has authorityover the clay to make from the same lump of clay a vessel for honor or dishonor, at the potters discretion. The vessels do not make themselves, but rather are created vessels (of which are now no longer clay in 2 Tim 2:20). The honorable vessels are made for honor out of clay, and are prepared to every good work, IF:
2Ti 2:21 if, then, any one may cleanse himself from these, he shall be a vessel to honour, sanctified and profitable to the master--to every good work having been prepared,
And, we know that this will happen for all vessels made to honor. For it is God who works in the vessel for His own good pleasure:
Php 2:13 for God it is who is working in you both to will and to work for His good pleasure.
If nothing else, this should truly humble us before the absolute sovereignty of God over all His works, including you and I. The wonderful thing about this is that God has declared:
Psa 145:9 The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.
Psa 145:10 All thy works shall praise thee, O LORD ; and thy saints shall bless thee.
Though we may differ in our doctrines, all will praise Jesus for his tender mercies!
Last edited by AlabamaStorm; 01-30-2011 at 01:35 PM..
Reason: sp
Though we may differ in our doctrines, all will praise Jesus for his tender mercies!
Amen, Alabama.
"Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass; it's about learning to dance in the rain."
As the Spirit leads!
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You're a simple tool that allows me opportunity to glorify Jesus and His word. That is the reason for our existence. To glorify God. To glorify Jesus alone. Not as your angelic conflict would have us believe.
