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Old 02-26-2011, 04:24 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
Very simple...there is no reference to US in the Bible. Your question will go unanswered at best. For a response to be otherwise, takes for a lot of wishfull reading.

So it will be with the athesist. There are no athesists in heaven..it is an impossibility.



To believe there is no mention of the United States in the Bible would be an error. The problem is most non believers do not have the spiritual tools to understand the Biblical account. They often make such statements like this, without knowledge of the Text. America will be found in Jer. chapters 50 and 51. And Revelation chapter 18. And it requires reading all three of these chapters to begin to understand the prophecy. Jesus is a God of wonder. And He has shown us the future to those who are open to it.
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Old 02-26-2011, 04:35 PM
 
Location: Florida -
10,213 posts, read 14,735,434 times
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Default Change of paths for America

JGHorton Post #75:
We know from the Bible that God will physically destroy this world until the end time when "the earth and all that is in it will be burned up." But, we also know from Sodom and Gomorrah, Canaan and the world of Noah's day that God does not ignore or 'wink at' sin. The question may not be "will God destroy America?" ... but, rather, "Will God remove His hand of blessing from this nation?" (Perhaps, when we finally abandon Israel?).

The destruction of nations and empires from within is well-documented historical and Biblical fact from the Roman empire ... to modern day Russia, Persia, ancient Egypt and Israel and many other pagan nations. The Bible clearly shows that unbridled sin has its own consequences. Further, no pagan nation has ever survived indefinitely or with impunity on the path of Godlessness and destruction.

Outward sin (eg; breaking the commandments) is not the 'sin' itself, but the outward evidence of inner corruption. One does not have to look far in America today to see a country that is socially and culturally on the path of destruction from within. Sure, we still have a limping economy. a corrupt government and a Godless media ... but, openly accepted sin is clear evidence of inward destruction. Just a few examples include: breakdown of the family unit, abortion on demand, rampant immorality, godless liberalism, spiraling illegitimate birth rates, pornography, paganism; open, unbridled homosexuality, government corruption and "people unwilling to endure sound doctrine, but every man seeking to be his own god".

God will not need to destroy America for open homosexuality or any other outward sins (or the pretense that these things are not sin in God's eyes). We will inevitably do that on our own if we continue down this path ... and there is no evidence that our nation has the will to change paths.


Quote:
Originally Posted by stillkit View Post
In your opinion, how do we change paths?

I'm not sure that even Solomon has the wisdom to solve this one, but the Bible provides the answer ... which suprisingly, falls into the lap of God's people instead of the 'lost and dying world.' (this path must and can only be followed one individual at a time):

If My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land. (2 Chr. 7:14)
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Old 02-26-2011, 11:44 PM
 
16,294 posts, read 28,414,577 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
So it will be with the athesist. There are no athesists in heaven..it is an impossibility.
Well ain't that special so your god is more interested in those that do the proper kowtowing to him than how they live their lives and treat their fellow man here an now. So you all can spend eternity kowtowing to this megalomaniac god.

Truthfully, the price of admission is too high, and the reward would be an eternity of playing the part of a subservient minion to the ego of this god....... pass
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Old 02-27-2011, 12:42 AM
 
Location: Texas
14,076 posts, read 20,443,181 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jghorton View Post




I'm not sure that even Solomon has the wisdom to solve this one, but the Bible provides the answer ... which suprisingly, falls into the lap of God's people instead of the 'lost and dying world.' (this path must and can only be followed one individual at a time):

If My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land. (2 Chr. 7:14)
That's it! We the CHURCH must humble ourselves, pray, seek His face and turn from our wicked ways before anything else can happen!

But, that would require a degree of honesty about ourselves that too many believer's don't want to practice. We'd rather use the power of government to change everyone elses' behavior! Instead of examining our own hearts and our own behavior, we'd rather put God "back into the schools" or in the courthouses, as if that will accomplish anything.
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Old 02-27-2011, 12:44 AM
 
Location: Texas
14,076 posts, read 20,443,181 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
Well ain't that special so your god is more interested in those that do the proper kowtowing to him than how they live their lives and treat their fellow man here an now. So you all can spend eternity kowtowing to this megalomaniac god.

Truthfully, the price of admission is too high, and the reward would be an eternity of playing the part of a subservient minion to the ego of this god....... pass

God is a jealous God who has the right to demand our worship.

In the end, we will either serve His ego or our own. Either He will be God, or we will. Unfortunately, there's only room in heaven for those who serve His and we cannot create our own because we're NOT god's, no matter how much we'd like to be.
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Old 02-27-2011, 12:55 AM
 
63,354 posts, read 39,621,799 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stillkit View Post
God is a jealous God who has the right to demand our worship.
This ancient ignorance will eventually be eliminated with God's help . ONLY humans have the negative emotion of jealousy or any other negative human emotion. They are ALL the result of our human psychological weaknesses . . . which God does NOT have!!! The retention of this ancient ignorance is pathetic and sad . . . very sad!
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Old 02-27-2011, 01:17 AM
 
17,842 posts, read 14,311,410 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
Stop with it already .... nowhere
Genesis 19:4-5
Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom—both young and old—surrounded the house. They called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.”
Lot replied:
“No, my friends. Don’t do this wicked thing"



That's a poor translation. What version is it from? They didn't just want to "have sex" with them, they wanted to assault and rape them. This is something heterosexual men have been doing to their enemies, strangers etc, for thousands of years. See my earlier post and link. It's not about lust and sex, it's about control. The men in this story (and Judges 19) were not homosexual.

Have you read Judges 19 yet?
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Old 02-27-2011, 02:39 AM
 
17,842 posts, read 14,311,410 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scgraham View Post
Every sinner can make this argument, whether they are adulterers, fornicators, thieves, child molesters, murderers and so forth. They can proclaim that they are born with desires to do these things, so it's their right to act upon them so they'll be happy. However, that won't hold up, even within man's laws in America; laws have to be implemented to abate chaos. How much more should God's laws be heeded?
You don't appear to understand what sexual orientation is. Heterosexuals do not choose to be heterosexual either. Sexual orientation is not just about desires.
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Old 02-27-2011, 02:55 AM
 
17,842 posts, read 14,311,410 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .sparrow. View Post
No, all it proves is Lot was obviously a coward and a very bad father for offering his daughters to be raped.
Well yes...by 21st century western standards. But not by the standards of that time. He was following the law by protecting the strangers.

Seriously, has no-one here read Judges 19 and the story of the Levite?


Quote:
And he lifted up his eyes and saw the traveler in the open square of the city. And the old man said, "Where are you going? And where do you come from?" 18And he said to him, "We are passing from Bethlehem in Judah to the remote parts of the hill country of Ephraim, from which I come. I went to Bethlehem in Judah, and I am going(M) to the house of the Lord,[b](N) but no one has taken me into his house. 19We have straw and feed for our donkeys, with bread and wine for me and your female servant and the young man with your servants.(O) There is no lack of anything." 20And the old man said,(P) "Peace be to you; I will care for all your wants.(Q) Only, do not spend the night in the square." 21So he brought him into his house and gave the donkeys feed.(R) And they washed their feet, and ate and drank.

22As they were(S) making their hearts merry, behold, the men of the city, worthless fellows,(T) surrounded the house, beating on the door. And they said to the old man, the master of the house, "Bring out the man who came into your house, that we may know him." 23And the man, the master of the house, went out to them and said to them, "No, my brothers,(U) do not act so wickedly; since this man has come into my house,(V) do not do this vile thing.
24(W) Behold, here are my virgin daughter and his concubine. Let me bring them out now.(X) Violate them and do with them what seems good to you, but against this man(Y) do not do this outrageous thing."

25But the men would not listen to him. So the man seized his concubine and made her go out to them. And they knew her and abused her all night until the morning. And as the dawn began to break, they let her go. 26And as morning appeared, the woman came and fell down at the door of the man’s house where her master was, until it was light.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Judges%2019&version=ESV

Why do so many Christians who use the Bible to condemn others, not even READ the whole Bible?
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Old 02-27-2011, 03:47 AM
 
17,842 posts, read 14,311,410 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scgraham View Post
This sounds like more new age philosophy trying to explain the Bible, which cannot be understood by such a carnal mind. The Bible declares that Sodom and Gomorrah were set on fire for giving themselves over to fornication and foriegn flesh; that's thus saith the Lord, not thus saith man.

Jude 1
[7] Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
How can The Bible be "understood" if people don't actually read ALL of it.

How can it be understood unless a person has some understanding of the cultures in which the texts were written- so they'd have a clue what the writers were referring to.

How can it be understood (in modern times) if someone has no awareness that what we read in English versions today is often a poor translation and interpretation of what the original writers may have meant in their own languages and cultures. (especially those translations commissioned by very conservative churches)

Gangs of men who threatened to rape strangers (or angels) in a culture where this was seen as a common practice by otherwise heterosexual men, have absolutely nothing at all to do with gays and lesbians. Then, or now in the 21st century.

JewishEncyclopedia.com - HOSPITALITY.

JewishEncyclopedia.com - SODOM:

JewishEncyclopedia.com - LOT

Last edited by Ceist; 02-27-2011 at 04:14 AM..
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