The Commandments (Law) show us that we can't keep them! (Micah, crucified)

[restoner]

Originally Posted by jghorton

In your attempt to be humerous, you have actually come upon a relevant Biblical principle. It doesn't matter if one is circumcised in their flesh only ... but, only that they are 'circumcised' in their heart.

Not sure why you think there was an attempt at humor. Circumcision was a serious impediment to conversion of Gentiles to Christianity, so circumcision was one of the many laws that were rescinded - Acts 15:28-29 - USCCB - NAB - Acts 15.

What was your point in the OP, Christians are straying away from God's will if they do not behave like orthodox Jews? Somehow, I suspect there will be some serious cherry picking in terms of which laws you think must still be followed.

[texdav]

Yep;the OP has identified why we are all sinners.

[jessep28]

Originally Posted by restoner

What was your point in the OP, Christians are straying away from God's will if they do not behave like orthodox Jews? Somehow, I suspect there will be some serious cherry picking in terms of which laws you think must still be followed.

No, I think the point OP was making is that we can't keep the Law because we are sinners. We need to turn to the ONLY one who was able to keep the Law perfectly.

Now remember, the Law is still important. It serves to convict us. However, we also need to hear the Gospel message that YOUR SINS ARE FORGIVEN. The two should never be mixed.

[little elmer]

Originally Posted by jessep28

It serves to convict us.

Exactly; the Law was (and is) a schoolmaster to bring us to Christ.

[Verna Perry]

Originally Posted by jghorton

Hi Verna, -- Not sure what you are referring to, since the Bible is on solid bedrock in the matter of 'the law and works' (which have no power to save) and God's Grace by faith in Christ. Per Galatians, the law was given as a teacher to lead us to Christ.

I have a hard time imagining that you are saying that 'keeping the law' is the way to the kingdom of God ... so, I can only assume that you must be thinking that I am saying something else (?) --- Do you imagine, for example that you are able to keep the law/commandments? (Remember, what Jesus said about even committing adultery or hating/murder in one's heart). Or, do you imagine that I am saying that we should not strive to obey God's law? ... which is not really what I am saying. -- Help me out here.

You tell me jghorton...just what are you saying...?

Are you saying that a willfull sinner will enter into the Kingdom of God?

[trettep]

Originally Posted by jghorton

Of course you are right about Christ! He did obey the commandments and did not transgress the law (which is an indicator of sin). However, you seem to be suggesting that we have an ability to not commit acts of sin ... which somehow saves us??? ---

Hi jghorton, I'm not suggesting that WE can be righteous of ourselves and not sin. What I am saying is that if Christ is in us then we will not be sinning because of His works through us. This is HOW we are saved. When He is in us, then we no longer sin. Not because of anything we do, but because of what He does.

While we must certainly strive to obey God, law-keeping/rule-keeping is not the way to do that ... anymore than 'sacrificing goats and bulls'. The very fact that WE cannot perfectly keep the law or not sin, is what Galatians 3 is speaking about, when it states that the law is a teacher to lead us to Christ!

You are also right about 'workless faith' ... but, not in the sense that the works somehow garner approval. Instead, the works reveal TO US (not God; He already sees our hearts) ... that we are living by real faith or head faith.

We cannot keep God's Law. Jesus Christ has a copyright on all Good Works. Only He can NOT sin. We are unable to NOT sin. So if we are not sinning then it is Him in us putting down sin in our own flesh and not ourselves. So He gets the credit for the good work He does through us. This is how we are saved.

If we sin and suggest that we don't have to be without sin to be saved then we error. God's Power is so great that His own Son through us can eradicate our sins.

[jghorton]

Originally Posted by restoner

Not sure why you think there was an attempt at humor. Circumcision was a serious impediment to conversion of Gentiles to Christianity, so circumcision was one of the many laws that were rescinded - Acts 15:28-29 - USCCB - NAB - Acts 15.

What was your point in the OP, Christians are straying away from God's will if they do not behave like orthodox Jews? Somehow, I suspect there will be some serious cherry picking in terms of which laws you think must still be followed.

Actually, the early 'Judiazers', who could not imagine that the 'unclean gentiles' would actually be included in God's grace, .. concluded that they must first become Jews, before they could become Christians. That involved circumcision, dietary restrictions, etc.... but, was never a tenant of Christianity.... which is why I mistakenly assumed you were being humorous.

My point in the OP is simply that the world (in general) and also many Christians who are saved by Grace, ... still cling to the law and religious rules, like the ancient Pharisees. This perpetuates the false notion that God's chief concern is 'law/rule-keeping'... instead of salvation by faith through Grace.

[savedbysovereigngrace]

James 2:9-11

9But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.


10For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

11For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

One of the most foolish thoughts of the religious person, is that they attempt to make themselves right with God or maintain a right standing with Him by an effort to obey His Law [ The Ten Commandments] and one of the chief designs why God gave the Law to Moses and the people of Israel was to show them how far short they fall in keeping it, and to bring them to a acute knowledge of their sinfulness and point them to the one and only Law Keeper, the Lord Jesus Christ, for it [ The commandments] were design to be a school master to Faith in the Messiah, the Seed of the woman. Gal 3:24

24Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Rom 3:20

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Rom 7:7

What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Now how can men be Justified before God by attempting to obey the law which purpose was to convince me of sin ! That is sin in every deportment , in my mind and thoughts, every desire of my heart, every look in my eye, every word of my mouth, every action of my body as natural man. For the Law is God's measuring stick which exposes or brings to light the fact that i am a sinner, and fall far short of the Glory of God, who demands absolute Perfection from His creature man. Only Christ provides that Perfection, and blessed are those who loom to Him for their law Keeping Rightness before God..Rev 14:12

Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

They keep the commandments of God through their Faith in Christ Rom 10:4

4For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

[.sparrow.]

- The Law is our schoolmaster.
- Where there is love, there is no NEED for the law, for there is nothing evil to restrain.

[JAA2310]

Originally Posted by jghorton

When asked what they think the Lord wants of them, many confidently respond, "Do my best to obey the Ten Commandments and follow the Golden Rule." They believe that if they can only sufficiently obey enough rules or laws, God will be appeased and allow them into heaven. But, the law only frustrates us by our inability to keep it! Do you suppose God is surprised?

In fact, the very purpose of the law is to show us that we cannot keep it ... or more importantly, that it will take something besides our effort to reconcile us with God. But, God, by His Grace, has not provided the law to show us what we must do to be saved, but as a tutor, to lead us to Christ (Gal 3:10-24).

Although believers are no longer under the law, the law still serves to show us when we are straying away from God's will ... reminding us to repent and turn back. The limited ability of our weak flesh to keep the law ... also helps prevent false pride from undermining our Christian walk and relationship with the Lord.

A very nice post, with solid biblical information. Some of the commenting here thus far has offered good insight, as well.

As has already ben shared here, your reference to Gal 3:24 is a companion verse to Rom 3:20: "Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

It also reminds me of a helpful passage in Romans 7:

Rom 7:7-11

7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, "You shall not covet." 8 But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead. 9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me.
NKJV

The Law is, indeed, "our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ". This must be an integral part of how the Gospel is presented. Ultimately we will share verses attesting to the matchless love and mercy and grace of God, and how this solves our sin problem (in the final analysis).

But this is provided that we respond to the Gospel call within a biblical framework. I know it offends people to hear us mention how God is angry with sin and those who practice it. But coming to Christ cannot happen until we realize (or, are made to realize) the reason why we need Him.

More to follow as the thread progresses...

God bless.