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Old 04-12-2011, 06:02 AM
 
2,779 posts, read 2,285,431 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antredd View Post
I agree with you. But what is initial salvation? Are there stages? If so, can you give me Scriptures?
Hello antredd,

I'll let Peter tell you about initial salvation. He makes it pretty clear.

36 “Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah.”

37 When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”
38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.” 40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.” 41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

Katie
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Old 04-12-2011, 04:16 PM
 
Location: The Conterminous United States
22,576 posts, read 49,587,815 times
Reputation: 13510
I'm starting to rethink the agnosticism. I may be finally catching onto this Christianity thing.

First order of business; anyone spouting off about how they are going to heaven and you, you, and you are doomed, I need to walk away from. Quickly.

I've sauntered through this forum a few times over the years. Is it me or is the sanctimonious shrill up to a entirely new level? It seems to be at an all time high in real life throughout the US, too.

Lots and lots of pointing fingers. Sometimes old platitudes are best; when you point a finger, four come back at you.

Regarding the churches, I went to a couple of churches when I was pregnant and asked about where I could possibly get something to eat. The reaction was amazing. Both times. It truly staggers that people read the words, sometimes daily, but don't really let it penetrate. It's selective comprehension.


Quote:
Originally Posted by brakelite View Post
I said elsewhere, but I'll say it again; there will be 3 surprises when we get to heaven.
1. That I'll be there.
2. That there are many we thought would be that aren't.
3. There are many we thought didn't have a dog show, and are.

A sincere read of the letter to the church of the Laodiceans would go a long way to heal the maladies that afflict us all. Note that there are no doctrinal rebukes, the people addressed thought they had it all down. But Jesus view of their hearts revealed blindness, poverty, and shame. The remedy? Gold tried in the fire. In other words, character adjustment. The only thing from this world we will be taking with us when we die, our characters. Whatever character we develop now, that is what we will be judged by as to whether or not it is worthy of the company of angels and a Holy God.
Despite opinions to the contrary, there is no second chance. Now is the time for salvation.

Hiknapster, for a confessed agnostic, you have some very serious and wise counsel and insights. Any church that turned you away is worse off for your absence.
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Old 04-12-2011, 07:47 PM
 
2,779 posts, read 2,285,431 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiknapster View Post
I'm starting to rethink the agnosticism. I may be finally catching onto this Christianity thing.

First order of business; anyone spouting off about how they are going to heaven and you, you, and you are doomed, I need to walk away from. Quickly.

I've sauntered through this forum a few times over the years. Is it me or is the sanctimonious shrill up to a entirely new level? It seems to be at an all time high in real life throughout the US, too.

Lots and lots of pointing fingers. Sometimes old platitudes are best; when you point a finger, four come back at you.

Regarding the churches, I went to a couple of churches when I was pregnant and asked about where I could possibly get something to eat. The reaction was amazing. Both times. It truly staggers that people read the words, sometimes daily, but don't really let it penetrate. It's selective comprehension.
I can't imagine anyone turning you away, especially being pregnant.
I don't know you, but when I read your post, it made me so happy that you are turning to Jesus. I hope I never say anything to hurt you on this forum or turn you away from Him. I pray you find you way sister.

Sincerely,
Katie
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Old 04-12-2011, 08:40 PM
 
Location: New Zealand
234 posts, read 209,532 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiknapster View Post
I'm starting to rethink the agnosticism. I may be finally catching onto this Christianity thing.

First order of business; anyone spouting off about how they are going to heaven and you, you, and you are doomed, I need to walk away from. Quickly.

I've sauntered through this forum a few times over the years. Is it me or is the sanctimonious shrill up to a entirely new level? It seems to be at an all time high in real life throughout the US, too.

Lots and lots of pointing fingers. Sometimes old platitudes are best; when you point a finger, four come back at you.

Regarding the churches, I went to a couple of churches when I was pregnant and asked about where I could possibly get something to eat. The reaction was amazing. Both times. It truly staggers that people read the words, sometimes daily, but don't really let it penetrate. It's selective comprehension.
The first thing we must all realise is that Christianity is not a form of religion, it is first and foremost a relationship. Through the shed blood of our Saviour Jesus Christ the relationship between man and God is re-established.
We humbly surrender ourselves to Him, confessing our sins, and admitting our complete dependency on Him for all things,our Saviour and Creator, and allow Him to take care of the rest, for without Him we can do nothing. He will lead us into all truth, so long as we trust Him implicitly and don't allow our own feelings, emotions and former traditions to get in the way. Anything that contradicts the written word must be left alone.
I rejoice that you are reconsidering your position. Praise God! I would love to recommend a church, but I hesitate because churches are made up of people, and people are faulty, sometimes downright horrible, so I do not want to direct you to some place and then find it disappoints you and puts you off for good. I belong to a specific denomination, but even within that dmntn. there are individual churches that have their drawbacks. I think I will leave it to our Lord to guide you. (If you were living just down the road I wouldn't hesitate to invite you to my church lol)
God bless.
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Old 04-12-2011, 09:05 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Niagara Falls ON.
10,018 posts, read 11,331,747 times
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There is a word used in the NT that actually is defined as, "To be declared righteous". That word is "Justified" and it's used quite often in the NT. We are "Justified or declared righteous" By faith alone in Christ alone". We can never, never never be justified by our works. As Isiah the great Prophet of God said about his works, "Even my good deeds are as filthy rags in the sight of a Holy God".

Mankind's problem is our sin. It touches us at all of our points and it's only because when God looks at me He does not see that sin but the perfection of Jesus that I'm acceptable to Him. WE are washed in His blood and cleansed from our sin by the subsitutionary sacrifice of Jesus on our behalf.
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Old 04-12-2011, 10:17 PM
 
Location: The Conterminous United States
22,576 posts, read 49,587,815 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brakelite View Post
I would love to recommend a church, but I hesitate because churches are made up of people, and people are faulty, sometimes downright horrible, so I do not want to direct you to some place and then find it disappoints you and puts you off for good. I belong to a specific denomination, but even within that dmntn. there are individual churches that have their drawbacks. I think I will leave it to our Lord to guide you. (If you were living just down the road I wouldn't hesitate to invite you to my church lol)
God bless.
And I wouldn't hesitate to go!

You're right. Searching for a church is daunting and sometimes very, very heartbreaking. My absolute favorite church was called "First Christian" but I moved very far away from it. I've found many Methodist churches to be very welcoming.

I don't think I'll ever go back to the Lutheran church. I was born in raised in one and, incidentally, it was one of the churches that turned me away, though not that exact one.

By the way, I don't present as "bummy" looking, although that wouldn't have been an excuse, of course. I look very middle class - even when down on my luck - and often give a first impression of being very kind and approachable.
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Old 04-13-2011, 07:23 AM
 
3,344 posts, read 5,635,983 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katiemygirl View Post
Hello antredd,

I'll let Peter tell you about initial salvation. He makes it pretty clear.

36 “Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah.”

37 When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”
38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.” 40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.” 41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

Katie
Katie, what book and chapter can I read these verses you quoted?
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Old 04-13-2011, 07:34 AM
 
Location: Portland
130 posts, read 146,472 times
Reputation: 21
true, are works do not save us, saved by grace through faith, with faith we will have the works, perfect works, we are justified by both faith and works James says, First John says those that sin are not his children, how you tell a Christian form others is they don't sin, Christians are never called sinners, we were sinners Paul said, now we are the righteous by His blood, a Christian can sin some times, but we do not live in any, in love we leave sin behind, it is important to note that those who do righteousness are righteous, we do not live in any sin, sinners and saints, the righteous and the wicked, the good and the bad all through the Bible God makes this clear, people need to realize we live by the whole Bible, we live by every Word that comes from God, not what we want to believe, must know every book of the Bible every verse properly balanced, God can forgive anything but Christians do not live in perpetual sinfulness, we are not always sinning. That would violate the whole teaching of God, we watch so not to go to sinful places, we are in a raise your hand and repeat after me world, fast food christians that most are not His, but they think they are. We are separate from the world, separate from sinners, but helping them,

a light in a very dark world and churches of today are very dark places, that is why there are so many different ones in every city to give people what they want to hear, the church people killed Him and God said in the end my children will be thrown out of churches for they will be preaching His Word and people in church don't want it, they want the game, what makes them happy a few hours a week. The pastors give it and they like it, Christians we sit and read all day, day after day, month after month to know what is there, to love and get killed, to forsake all we have, we are hated by those of our own house, we ask people to stop sinning and help them do it, we spent all we have to do that even when it can get us killed. We have sinners in our house, we reach the poor, we Love God with all we got, He lives in us and talks with us, He walks with us, we have the power of His Spirit to protect us when all falls around us, we are hated in this world, but loved of Him, He talks to us through out the day in His own way, draw close to me and I will draw close to you He says, one has to be willing to know and obey the whole Bible or you will only live in a half truth life
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Old 04-13-2011, 09:08 AM
 
2,779 posts, read 2,285,431 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucknow View Post
There is a word used in the NT that actually is defined as, "To be declared righteous". That word is "Justified" and it's used quite often in the NT. We are "Justified or declared righteous" By faith alone in Christ alone". We can never, never never be justified by our works. As Isiah the great Prophet of God said about his works, "Even my good deeds are as filthy rags in the sight of a Holy God".

Mankind's problem is our sin. It touches us at all of our points and it's only because when God looks at me He does not see that sin but the perfection of Jesus that I'm acceptable to Him. WE are washed in His blood and cleansed from our sin by the subsitutionary sacrifice of Jesus on our behalf.
I don't know if I am allowed to crosspost, but I think what I wrote in another thread applies to what you are saying.

You view baptism as a work of human merit. The Bible never, ever calls baptism a work of human merit. The Bible calls baptism a work of God. It is not a human work. It is a Divine work. The idea that baptism is a human work is a relatively new one in terms of Christianity. It came about around 1520. It is man's idea, not the Holy Spirit's. If you can show me anywhere in the New Testament that shows baptism as a work of human merit, I will send you my next paycheck. You can give me your opinions, but you won't find such a thing in God's Word. What you are not understanding is that baptism is God's grace. It is filled with God's promises. Please consider the following scriptures.

Baptism is included in the category of promises and grace. In Acts 2:38-39 and Mark 16:16, it is clear that baptism is a promise. (forgiveness of sins, gift of the Holy Spirit, salvation).

Romans 6:3-4, Galatians 3:27 Another grace concept - Right in the middle of Paul's discussion of the law-grace contrast, where the idea that works of the law such as circumcision are vehemently rejected, baptism is presented as a saving act.

Titus 3:4-7 5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,

We are not saved on the basis of deeds done in righteousness. So how are we saved? According to His own mercy. How does this happen? BY THE WASHING OF REGENERATION AND RENEWAL OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. When we are baptized, we are not doing a work, we are receiving a gift, the gift of salvation.

Unless you can show the scripture that says man has a part in the work of baptism, then it is meaningless. Your opinion is adding to God's Word, and look what happened to mankind because Satan added that one little word, "You shall NOT surely die."

Being baptized for salvation is not undermining God's grace. Baptism is God's gift to us.

He saved us, NOT on the basis of deeds which WE have done. Then how? By baptism. Because this is where God the Holy Spirit works HIS works of regeneration and renewing. It couldn't be any plainer that. Baptism is God's work and not man's. Thus it is the purest grace.

If you wish to depend on YOUR OWN PERSONAL OPINION, and not what the scriptures teach, then nothing will matter. Many a man has tried to rely on his own understanding instead of what God's Word says.

See what God does for us. You see, baptism doesn't undermine God's grace. Baptism is always in the sphere of grace.

When we are baptized, we call on God to do His promised works, and then trust Him to do it. What are those works?

-union in Christ in His death and resurrection
-union with the whole trinity
-forgiveness of sins (justification)
-a clear conscience
-death to sin
-gift of the Holy Spirit
-regeneration, renewal
-sanctification
-salvation

These are clearly God's works of salvation, and only He can perform them, not man. Baptism is the working of God. (Colossians 2:11-13)

Salvation is clearly conditional upon faith, repentance, confession, and baptism.

Katie
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Old 04-13-2011, 09:11 AM
 
2,779 posts, read 2,285,431 times
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Originally Posted by antredd View Post
Katie, what book and chapter can I read these verses you quoted?
You mean you don't recognize Peter's first sermon on the day of Pentecost? Hmmmm! Okay, here it is. Acts chapter 2. I look forward to your response my friend. lol
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