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Blessings back!
Of course He saved me. I can tell you the day and the hour almost, and the place where the Holy Spirit converted my soul by a miracle such as Paul had on the road to Damascus -but not as dramatic, only in the same order.
At that time, I was told by the LORD "Time after time you have called upon me, and I have answered you; yet you have cut me off: but I say unto you that unless you yield yourself to me from this day forward, "I-WILL -CUT -YOU -OFF!".
You see, I had a long history [so to speak at that young age ] with the knowledge of the LORD and Savior as the only way, the only truth, and the only Life, but I had rejected His call with an adamant foot stomping "NO", in a church filled with Sunday afternoon song singers which my neighbor had invited me to attend with her; and I went, since my husband was working that day overtime.
I did not believe they would have an altar call, and I had been under deep conviction and seeking the LORD at that time because of a praying neighbor who became my friend and witnessed to me [she did not know I was already a backslider of some five years].
After I had rejected Jesus who had so graciously come to me in my home when I had asked Him one day after that neighbor left to "show me what was the 'right 'religion' and the 'way to be saved'";and He had come upon me and I had felt His holy presence upon me, and a gentle pressure upon my shoulders -which I yielded to- and I bowed my knees and wept -and wept -and wept -without using any words.
I got up from that session and did not know that He was now in me, by His Spirit, but I was troubled by some things I did that the preacher at the fundamentalist Church of my childhood said were "sins", and I was afraid that if I went to a Church, I would have to "give those things up", as pr the preacher believed and taught [whom I have to say was a Baptist Fundamentalist in the Bible belt of the 1950's] -although he was an excellent anointed preacher. So I avoided going to Church, because not understanding what had happened, yet, and thinking that the only way to be saved, in my mind [I was not biblically literate yet], was to "walk the aisle" in the Church, and I was not ready to part with the "things" I thought I would have to part with. Therefore, those things became my stupid idols, and they were worthless nothings, but I was a "young mind filled with mush" -as a certain broadcaster says about the young.
Anyway, the LORD prepared a time for me to be in Church, and have the opportunity of "walking the aisle" in the Church. The neighbor was a Nazarene Christian and her Church was rural, and four rural Churches were having a "singing" get-together that day and she invited me to go.
Well, the Holy Spirit knew I needed to be confronted, and I was. The entire service was stopped by the song leader and he asked everyone to pray, as the "LORD was really dealing with someone here".
I bowed, but it was to no avail to try to hide from the Holy Spirit, and the song leader came right down to me and began to implore me to "give my life to Jesus today, for He was really dealing with me".
The devil spoke very plainly in my other ear, using my false beliefs of what I would have to "give up" to follow Christ, and though the belief was false, the things were idols because -stupid as they were, and as misinformed as I was-I put them before the Gracious invitation to receive eternal Life from the LORD of Glory who had died for me; and so I said "No"!
Three times the song leader asked me, and three times the devil spoke in the other ear, lying to me me that I would lose -"even my husband", the devil said, because "he's Catholic and he won't love you".
The third time I said no, without knowing I would do it or planning it, I stamped my foot and shouted out in that silent, praying Church; "NO"!
Immediately the Holy Spirit departed from me [who had been in me since that day in my home when I had asked how to be saved and what was the Way -and He showed me only Jesus, then, by that Spirit]; as literally as you would draw up a window blind from bottom to top, He left. From the souls of my feet to the top of my head, He rose and ascended. I was aware spiritually, of His ascending after He left me, in a flight pattern that I was later told was like a dove taking off.
At that moment, I "knew" I was going to hell, deep in my heart, and I did not care. I was stone cold, dead and unfeeling.
Things began to happen after that which brought curses that lasted -by creating fear in my life- and those fears lasted even years after I was finally saved.
One was that a man broke into my home when I was in the bathtub, before a month had passed [two weeks I think it was], while my husband was away hunting, with my brother-in-law. The man intended rape -and probably murder- but my baby cried, who never cried -and that is the truth] so I got out of the tub to tend to him, and walking across the room to his crib from the bath, I saw that man at my back door through the doorway into the living room. He was in the act of unlocking the back door for a fast getaway after he did his dirty deed, having come in through a window which he had removed the screen from.
He had first climbed up on a broken bird bath which he had brought from the neighbors back trash, and had fallen on it while looking at me through the window, when I was in the tub, before he came in the window of the living room. When he had fallen, the noise of that fall caused me to get out of the tub and call to the neighbors -two elderly sisters-to see if they had made that noise [the bird bath was found later, beneath the bath window]. They did not answer, and I told myself "they had just gone in after taking their little dog out, probably". It was very dark out, and I could not see down below the window from it, to see that there was something below it.
When I saw that man, I froze and began screaming "Rape! Murder! Rape! Murder"! over and over [today, I would kill him with my bare hands and that is the truth, and I would do so by God's grace; but I was a stupid, untrained, mush brained, married teenager, then: now I'm a seasoned wiser mom of seven and grandmom of twenty]. BTW: Always scream "Fire!" to get help, never "Rape!", "murder"! so they say
Then he ran at me, grabbed my neck and began choking me, while exclaiming, "I ain't gonna hurt you!", but I yelled louder and he got scared, I reckon, and looked around the room and grabbed my purse and fled out the window [as the door was not yet unlocked], thinking robbery was lesser a charge than attempted rape [?].
I got the attention of the sisters next door, who called the police, and I identified the man later in a lineup -he had a long record of crime and I described him well. There was a trial, but he got off on technicalities [too long a story], and for years I was plagued with fear of someone breaking in when my husband was away [and there were years when he had to be away a lot] -but twelve years after Jesus saved me, He delivered me, one night, gloriously, from that fear forever -another story.
So, years later, a sister who was in seminary with her husband [who was called to be a preacher after they both got saved], and who lived 2500 miles away, got a burden like death, to intercede for my soul's salvation. She did not know my history of rejecting Jesus, and she was not even saved when I had done so, those years back. She did not tell me this part until we got together to talk over two years after, when we had stopped to visit them on our way through the state.
Anyway: she prayed under a death burden for days, and thought she would die if God did not remove it. One day it was gone, and she had heard nothing from me, and was worried that it was too late for me, as God did not tell her the end of the story.
That was Labor day week-end, she said, and on Oct 12, a Sunday, while my husband was working overtime and away, "God got a-hold of me", shook me to my core, and every word He said to me that day went into me like a knife dividing asunder my parts, and He so convicted me, immediately, of my danger of hell fire, and that this was my last chance, ever, so that I was gripped with such a conviction by His grace, to call out to be saved -like last second, not next, the urgency was so upon me- that I dropped to my knees and cried out "LORD Jesus Christ, have mercy on me, a sinner"!
He did.
I said nothing else, then, but I got up, shaken to the core of my being, and as light as a feather, almost; for my sins which I had been carrying and adding to, in my life, were burdening me down -and I had not known it until they were taken away that day!
I picked up the Bible and began to read the "Manufacturer's handbook", and discovered how to live and walk with my LORD, from that day forward. That was 42 years ago this Oct.
My poor sister did not know that her prayers were answered until Christmas time, when I wrote in a card that I was saved and filled with the Holy Spirit -oh yeah! -He came back in the same way He had left, one day, from top to bottom He descended from heaven, and I was aware of His coming down upon me, and when He landed on top of my head, He filled me all the way down, to the bottom of my feet!
Thank you for asking.
Hi yeshuasavedme!
What a story!
I also have had some "unusually strong" experiences in the Lord; I remember the very day when I had prayed with friends for the baptism in the Holy Ghost, and the JOY that filled my heart just minutes later! (not in a church building, nor at any crusade or tentmeeting), but while I was walking outside alone!
And this, I believe, was telling me a few things:
1) God works in and outside of church buildings; it's not true that a person "needs" to be listening to this or that preacher, or giving this or that amount of money, or becoming a member of this or that denomination.
2) God is JOY. And that Joy is what also confirmed, in my heart, that God is not going to "leave His creatures in torment eternally." It was so totally against what many preachers were/are preaching, that I cannot accept ET doctrine. It's just wrong, imo.
I also had an experience, a year and a half or so later, where I thought that I could "save" the girl that I loved. Boy was I wrong!! And I felt an anointing or "level" of anointing leave me at a certain point, I am convinced, due to my "deception."
Yet through it all, I believe that God is still working us to conform to what He wants us to be. He gives us blessings and a desire to know Him more, and I believe the core of it all, is about learning to Love. Not just a "popular" love that people talk about on TV. But Love that is unconditional, always giving, always forgiving, always wanting to lift others up rather than tear them down.
Originally Posted by Eusebius Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, the many were MADE sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, the many shall be MADE righteous."
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeshuasavedme
The only way for a soul born in the defiled Adam , to be made righteous [who has come to the age of accountability, of knowing good from evil and doing such with their freewill], is by receiving by their freewill the Once for all Atoning work of Jesus the Christ come in flesh, as Kinsman/Redeemer.
In other words, you don't really believe Romans 5:18 and 19. That's a pity.
Romans 5:18,19 shows all mankind being neutral in what they get from two men.
During this eon/age God is calling out a set amount of believers to be in the body of Christ. Those who believe will have age-during life for the next two ages. But they get what they get due to what Christ did in obedience to the cross. Their believing does not make Romans 5:18 and 19 false! Their believing is not a free-will act. I can prove that:
John 1:12-13 KJV But as many as received him, to them gave he power
to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: (13)
Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth,
but of God that sheweth mercy.
So, who of the eternal torment persuasion here really believes, at face value, just for what it says, Romans 5:12, 18 and 19 and what do you think those verses say?
You are O.K. with all mankind being made sinners because of what Adam did.
You are O.K. with all mankind being condemned because of what Adam did.
Don't jump to conclusions. I don't believe that all mankind are sinners for any other reason than that they sin. We are predisposed to be sinful because of what Adam did, but we have only ourselves to blame for actually sinning.
Quote:
You might ask yourself why you dissaprove of all mankind having their lives justified due to what Christ did.
I don't believe we are all justified because of what Christ did either. I believe we can be, and that He wants us to be, but I don't believe that we can be justified in God's eyes unless we repent of our sins and acknowledge that we need a Savior.
I believe we can be, and that He wants us to be, but I don't believe that we can be justified in God's eyes unless we repent of our sins and acknowledge that we need a Savior.
I agree with the first half, but, after the but i disagree, because i believe that God WILL get what He wants and i believe that Isa 26-9:......
for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.
Along with a multitude of other verses that proclaim that God will get what He desires.
One day ALL knees will bow and All tonguse confess
I agree with the first half, but, after the but i disagree, because i believe that God WILL get what He wants and i believe that Isa 26-9:......
for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.
Along with a multitude of other verses that proclaim that God will get what He desires.
One day ALL knees will bow and All tonguse confess
God be with ya'll
But is anyone truly repenting if it's not by choice? Is forced repentence what God wants? If it's a matter of "God getting what He wants," I believe He would want the choice to be left up to us. (I actually do believe that ultimately "all knees will bow and all tongues will confess," but I don't believe that it will be because "God got His way." That said, I also believe that there will be many who do so a bit reluctantly and that the Lord will bless those whose faithfulness, obedience and commitment were made more willingly.
Don't jump to conclusions. I don't believe that all mankind are sinners for any other reason than that they sin. We are predisposed to be sinful because of what Adam did, but we have only ourselves to blame for actually sinning.
I appreciate your thoughts on this Katzpur. But I must tell you that Paul the apostle would not agree with all your thoughts on this. You did get some of it right. If you read Romans 5:12 you would see we sin because death passed through into us due to what Adam did. We cannot blame ourselves for sinning. Paul lays the blame directly on Adam in verse 12.
Quote:
I don't believe we are all justified because of what Christ did either. I believe we can be, and that He wants us to be, but I don't believe that we can be justified in God's eyes unless we repent of our sins and acknowledge that we need a Savior.
Just because some of mankind are justified by faith due to what Christ did does not mean the rest will not be justified.
Besides, we are justified by Christ's faith:
Rom 3:26 toward the display of His righteousness in the current era, for Him to be just and a Justifier of the one who is out of the faith of Jesus."
Yes, Jesus had faith for us and we get justified due to His faith in going to the cross.
Gal 2:16 having perceived that a man is not being justified by works of law, except alone through the faith of Christ Jesus, we also believe in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by the faith of Christ and not by works of law, seeing that by works of law shall no flesh at all be justified."
So even we can't boast in believing.
Now then, in Romans 5:18 and 19 it is clearly shown that the same all manking that get condemned due just to what Adam did are the exact same all mankind that get their lives justified due solely to what Christ did. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see it. But it does take God opening our eyes to see it.
But is anyone truly repenting if it's not by choice? Is forced repentence what God wants? If it's a matter of "God getting what He wants," I believe He would want the choice to be left up to us. (I actually do believe that ultimately "all knees will bow and all tongues will confess," but I don't believe that it will be because "God got His way." That said, I also believe that there will be many who do so a bit reluctantly and that the Lord will bless those whose faithfulness, obedience and commitment were made more willingly.
If it is forced , or not something that one has learned,(through correction) and not punishment, then how does this scripture fit?
1Co 12:3 -
Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
But is anyone truly repenting if it's not by choice? Is forced repentence what God wants? If it's a matter of "God getting what He wants," I believe He would want the choice to be left up to us. (I actually do believe that ultimately "all knees will bow and all tongues will confess," but I don't believe that it will be because "God got His way." That said, I also believe that there will be many who do so a bit reluctantly and that the Lord will bless those whose faithfulness, obedience and commitment were made more willingly.
Dear Katzpur,
You make a big deal about choice and if things are forced on us.
Well, what do you think Romans 5:12,18 and 19 is all about? Did we have a choice to have death pass through into all mankind due to what one man did?
And due to death passing through into all mankind, all sin. Does that sound to you like we had any choice in the matter?
Look at 5:18 here and see what all mankind get due to what Adam and Christ did:
Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for all mankind
for condemnation, thus also it is through one just award for all mankind for
life's justifying."
Do you see anything in 5:18 that if all mankind do the wrong thing, if all mankind make the wrong choices, then they will get condemned? No. We all got condemned, not based on our choices but based solely on Adam's choice. And the same goes for all mankind and what they get due to what Christ did.
Now look at 5:19. Does it say anything about the many's choice?:
Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, the many
were MADE sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, the many
shall be MADE just."
The many in vs. 19 is all mankind minus 1, Christ. Christ is the only one not made a sinner due to what Adam did. So, Katzpur, what about the many? Did they all make a choice to be made sinners? No. They were made sinners solely due to what Adam did, against their wills!
Let's look in the same epistle just a couple chapters later in chapter 8
Romans 8:20-21 CLV For to vanity was the creation subjected, not
voluntarily, but because of Him Who subjects it, in expectation" (21) that
the creation itself, also, shall be freed from the slavery of corruption into
the glorious freedom of the children of God."
Notice in the above passage that the creation had no free-will in what happened to it. It didn't volunteer for slavery. The slavery of corruption was forced upon all creation. But it was done so with a view of being freed from that slavery into the glorious freedom of the children of God. So, Katzpur, who is really free? The creation? No. The children of God? Yes.
Christ ransomed all (1 Timothy 2:4-6) from slavery to corruption, to slavery to sin and death. Based upon Him ransoming all, all must be saved.
We have this belief that God begins to draw ourselves to him once we have made a choice. Even if it was by our own choice(which i do not believe it is), God is influencing those choices, he woos us by revealing to us who he IS.
Acts 8:1 says this "And Saul approved of their killing him". I have no doubt that when Stephen uttered “Lord, do not hold this sin against them” after he was stoned had a major influence upon Saul,even though Saul approved of his death. I know i carried on in my own lifestyle as i was seeing what i undoubtedly knew in my heart was God, i fought it, but thank God he's patient and tolerant in seeing his goodness bring us to repentance(to himself).
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And I felt an anointing or "level" of anointing leave me at a certain point, I am convinced, due to my "deception."
