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Dear Father in heaven, thanks for hearing me. You always hear me when I pray. Father, dearest Father, into Thine hands I commit Finn and all those who do not yet know about what Your Son has done in obedience to You to undo Adam's making all mankind sinners and what he did to condemn all mankind.
Father, I am so thankful that you thought of every man, woman and child by having your Son die for all of them and undoing all Adam did to us. Father, may we all think just like You.
Dear trettep, in Romans 5:18,19 it says they shall be made righteous and shall have their lives justified. That is future tense.
Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for all
mankind for condemnation, thus also it is through one just award for all
mankind for life's justifying."
Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, the
many were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the
One, the many shall be constituted just (made righteous)."
Thanks Eusebius, I knew you believed that but your initial post would have been heard by many they way I presented it to you. Thanks for clarifying to them.
Do you have a clue why most Christians believe what Adam did had more power than what Jesus did?
Christians believe what Jesus said "that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life", so your claim is false. Jesus will save everyone who wants to be saved. But then again, you already knew that is what Christians believe, didn't you. Do not be surprised if people have no interest in debating phony arguments and false claims.
Christians believe what Jesus said "that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life", so your claim is false. Jesus will save everyone who wants to be saved. But then again, you already knew that is what Christians believe, didn't you. Do not be surprised if people have no interest in debating phony arguments and false claims.
In other words, Finn, you think Jesus said that according to the King James Version or whatever version you think is correct?
News flash: Jesus never used the English word "eternal" nor the Latin word "aeternum."
So Finn, let's just face the light: You believe Adam is greater than Christ.
Christians believe what Jesus said "that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life", so your claim is false. Jesus will save everyone who wants to be saved. But then again, you already knew that is what Christians believe, didn't you. Do not be surprised if people have no interest in debating phony arguments and false claims.
There's no false claim involved on my part. This thread has told you what the scriptures say. Adam caused all to die, and Christ will cause all to live. Most Christians like yourself believe Adam's deed was more significant because he caused ALL to die, but Christ's deed can only cause SOME to live. I guess that's your choice whether or not to believe in the full significance of Christ's death, burial, and resurrection, but in so doing you're missing out on the good news.
BHfT,
I see Finn's problem. He believes that since a select amount of people are saved by faith that this precludes all other humans from salvation.
His problem stems from the translation(s) he uses. For instance, he quotes John 3:36 from a very poor translation:
"He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."
But if he based his belief structure on a better tranlation such as these:
(CLV) He who is believing in the Son has life eonian, yet he who is
stubborn as to the Son shall not be seeing life [eonian], but the
indignation of God is remaining on him."
(WNT) He who believes in the Son has the Life of the Ages; he who
disobeys the Son will not enter into Life [of the Ages], but God's anger
remains upon him.
(YLT) he who is believing in the Son, hath life age-during; and he who
is not believing the Son, shall not see life [age-during], but the wrath of
God doth remain upon him.'
(GNT-BYZ+) πιστευων εις τον υιον εχει ζωη αιωνιον δε1161 απει
θων τω υιω ουκ οψεται ζωην [αιωνιον] αλλ η οργη του θεου μενει επ αυτον
Finn's "Version" keeps him from believing all the Scripture concerning what Christ has done for all mankind. It is sad, but true, that people are blinded by the very Versions they think is God's word.
BHfT,
I see Finn's problem. He believes that since a select amount of people are saved by faith that this precludes all other humans from salvation.
His problem stems from the translation(s) he uses. For instance, he quotes John 3:36 from a very poor translation:
"He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."
But if he based his belief structure on a better tranlation such as these:
(CLV) He who is believing in the Son has life eonian, yet he who is
stubborn as to the Son shall not be seeing life [eonian], but the
indignation of God is remaining on him."
(WNT) He who believes in the Son has the Life of the Ages; he who
disobeys the Son will not enter into Life [of the Ages], but God's anger
remains upon him.
(YLT) he who is believing in the Son, hath life age-during; and he who
is not believing the Son, shall not see life [age-during], but the wrath of
God doth remain upon him.'
(GNT-BYZ+) πιστευων εις τον υιον εχει ζωη αιωνιον δε1161 απει
θων τω υιω ουκ οψεται ζωην [αιωνιον] αλλ η οργη του θεου μενει επ αυτον
Finn's "Version" keeps him from believing all the Scripture concerning what Christ has done for all mankind. It is sad, but true, that people are blinded by the very Versions they think is God's word.
I think Finn understands the message BHFT is trying to get across. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand the comparison she is making. If Adam "polluted" all, but Christ cannot "cleanse" all, that Adam's effect was the more powerful.
(Note: some people will interject here, that man must "make a choice." But man did not make any choice about being "in Adam," so I cannot understand why he would have to "make a choice" about Christ.)
The comparison is very simple, and in fact, Romans 5 makes it more than simple: God's grace is ABOVE AND BEYOND Adam's sin. "Where sin abounded, grace did much more abound."
Without sounding like a heretic, I'd say that God is not even looking at man's sin anymore. The more man sins, the greater God's grace covers it all.
Without sounding like a heretic, I'd say that God is not even looking at man's sin anymore. The more man sins, the greater God's grace covers it all.
Yes, God does not look at our sins anymore, we are already forgiven. IMHO, God's judgement is this: "Ye shall judge yourselves". The question is, are we going to forgive ourselves? I believe 'hell' on the other side is our remorse, our failure to forgive ourselves.
There's no false claim involved on my part. This thread has told you what the scriptures say. Adam caused all to die, and Christ will cause all to live. Most Christians like yourself believe Adam's deed was more significant because he caused ALL to die, but Christ's deed can only cause SOME to live. I guess that's your choice whether or not to believe in the full significance of Christ's death, burial, and resurrection, but in so doing you're missing out on the good news.
Your argument "Adam's deed was more significant" is still fake, because you made it up, and you try to make it sound like someone else said it. They are your words, so don't try to insert them in other people's mouth. It' dishonest.
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