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Old 04-07-2011, 10:01 PM
 
362 posts, read 318,991 times
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THE CONCEPT OF TIME
I’ve noted this particular forum has it’s share of specific debates regarding issues of time (especially as it relates to the principle of "eternity") as it regards to the wicked and their punishment. My comments will NOT answer how long the wicked are “punished” but rather I’d like to comment on “Time” and "eternity" as religious principles inside early sacred Judao-Christian texts.



DIFFICULTIES WITHIN DEBATES
One problem with arguments is that the debaters tend to make non-specific and over generalized claims. If one says the greek word αιον (aion) ALWAYS refers to an ETERNAL principle, then what is one to do with the use of the same word when the same word is used in describing non-eternal entities? The other side may similarly over generalization by saying the word NEVER refers to an eternal principle, or claim the ancients didn’t DEAL with eternal issues or ways of thinking (when their writings indicate they did understand this principle). This sort of “light bulb” thinking that considers ONLY two alternatives, rather than consider that things are a bit more complicated create unneeded argument .

The mixing up of historical terms in a non-historical context also causes difficulties. When a poster refers to SHEOL, one is left wondering if he referring to the place where spirits reside between death and resurrection described in early christian decensus literature, or is he trying to describe a post-judgment place where the wicked experience punishment? (Often, the poster does not define this difference, which, historically, is important, or worse yet, combines aspects of both of them into his description...).


I believe that in the Judao-Christian era circa the b.c.e and c.e, transitional period, both Jews and Christians were aware of, understood and used the concept of “eternity” (i.e. referring to all “time” both “past and future” in their various texts.




1) THE ETERNITY BEFORE MORTALITY

For example : God the Father was himself, viewed as an “eternal” being in Judao-Christianity (i.e. having no beginning, nor end). In fact, I believe that the very descriptions OF God the Father by time-oriented names such as “he who precedes time”; The chief of days”; “The beginning of days”; “he who is of primordial days”; “the antecedent of time”, etc, display an awareness that time, (as we measure and experience it), is, to a certain extent, experienced, and measured differently by mortal beings than immortal beings (since the Father is “he who precedes” time)..

For example: In the Prophet Enochs’ ascension vision where he sees the pre-mortal Son, who is going about with God the Father. Notice how the prophet enoch applies time-contextual appellations to God the Father :
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At that place, I saw the One to whom belongs the “chief of days.” (an appellation applying to God, the Father). And his head was white like wool, and there was with him another individual whose face was like that of a human being. His countenance was full of grace like that of one among the holy angels. 2 And I asked the one–from among the angels–who was going with me, and who had revealed to me all the secrets regarding the One who was born of human beings, “Who is this, and from whence is he who is going as the prototype of the Before-Time (1st Enoch 46:1-6)
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In those days, I saw him – the Antecedent of Time, while he was sitting upon the throne of his glory, and the books of the living ones were open before him. And all his power in heaven above and his escorts stood before him....” (1st Enoch 47:3)

“... And I saw countless angels–a hundred thousand times an hundred thousand, ten million times ten million–encircling that house. Michael, Raphael, Gabriel, Phanuel, and numerous (other) holy angels that are in heaven above, go in and out of that house—....10 With them is the Antecedent of Time: His head is white and pure like wool and his garment is indescribable....13 Then the Antecedent of Time came with Michael......angels that are countless...” (1st Enoch)
Speaking of the time when the son is chosen and named as the savior, which mankind will require after the expected fall occurs, enoch still refers to God by a time-conscious name :
Quote:
“...(Then) their dwelling places become with the holy, righteous, and elect ones. At that hour, that Son of Man was given a name, in the presence of the Lord of the Spirits, the Before-Time (Literally the “before the beginning [or “head”] of days,”),.” (1st Enoch 48:1-7)
In the context of appellations having references to time; some of these appellations referred to eternity, past and future. : For example, when Lucifer is cast out of heaven, he is told : “Shame on you Azazel! …the Eternal Ruler, the Mighty One, has given you a dwelling on earth. (The Apocalypse of Abraham 13: 4,5,7-14). God the Father is NOT described as a temporary ruler in ANY of these texts, but he is an eternal ruler.




2) ETERNITY FROM WITHIN THE MORTAL EXPERIENCE


Though time is unending, as it relates to MORTALITY, TIME IS “INAUGURATED”; and it is then DIVIDED UP INTO VARIOUS PERIODS, then those periods are “DISPENSED” TO MANKIND IN ORDER TO ACCOMPLISH A PURPOSE WITHIN MORTALITY.


In trying to explain these principles to his own children, Judao-Christian Enoch begins by speaking to his children of the premortal period “Before ever anything existed, and before ever any created thing was created, the Lord created the whole of his creation, visible and invisible. 2 And however much time there was went by.” “Time”, as described before creation of the earth and before mortality, doesn’t seem to be measured in the same way. The inhabitants realize they are in “eternity” (i.e. “Time” is not particularly “measured” in small bits by them since it doesn’t ever “run out”)

After this point is made, the prophet Enoch continues toward the description of the creation and asys : “Understand how, on account of this, he [God, the Father] constituted man in his own form, in accordance with a similarity....3 And the Lord set everything forth for the sake of man, and he created the whole of creation for his [man’s] sake. “ After his children understand the basic principle that this material creation and temporary experience of mortality exist for the sake of mankind, he then explains the condition of a reckoning of a limited amount of time and it’s purpose for man :
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And he divided it [creation] into times:... 4...so that a person might think about time, and so that he might count the years and the months and the days and the hours and the perturbations and the beginnings and the endings, and that he might keep count of his own life from the beginning unto death and think of his sins, ...” (2nd Enoch 65:1-4)
Mortality was engineered (in the main...) as a segment of time both with a beginning and an end that were close enough together so as to encourage mankind to consider that an end was coming to their “lives”. Thus, obtaining certain experiences and making certain decisions could not be put off indefinitely.


MP Enoch translates this same point thusly : “Then the Lord released the age for the sake of man; and he divided it into seasons and years, into months and days and hours; so that a person might think about the changes of the seasons, the beginnings and the endings, so that he might estimate his own life and death” (2nd Enoch MP 65:1-4)

Regarding the relatively limited time span of a lifetime, The Prophet Ezra points out the criticalness of obtaining moral knowledge; moral experiences, and the subsequent moral decisions mankind must make INSIDE this time allotted to each of us. The prophet Ezra, after pointing out the consequences of choosing either to live good lives or the consequences of choosing evil is told by God :
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This is the meaning of the contest which every man who is born on earth shall wage, 128 that if he is defeated [in the challenge to learn good moral choice] he shall suffer what you have said, but if he is victorious he shall receive what I have said. 129 For this is the way of which Moses, while he was alive, spoke to the people saying, ‘Choose for yourself life, that you may live!’ 130 But they did not believe him, or the prophets after him, or even myself who have spoken to them. 131 Therefore there shall not be grief at their damnation, so much as joy over those to whom salvation is assured. “ (Fourth Book of Ezra 7:120, 123 and 125-131).
Whether for good or evil, moral experiences AND moral choices have to be made within the mortal time given to us (with some exceptions).



However, the engineering of a finite sized, and temporary mortal experience for mankind meant that not all spirits of mankind could experience mortality at the same time (I think there were other reasons for this as well). The plan for mortality created some limitations. The prophet Ezra, speaking with the Lord, is taught regarding the necessity of creating successive generations (again, a limitation imposed by constraints of limited “time” and limited “space”. The Prophet Ezra said to God
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Yet behold, O Lord, you have charge of those who are alive at the end, but what will those do who were before us, or we, or those who come after us?

Ezra’s conversation with God runs thusly with God explaining to Ezra :
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I shall liken my judgment to a circle; just as for those who are last there is now slowness, so for those who are first there is no haste.” Then I answered and said, “could you not have created at one time those who have been and those who are and those who will be, that you might show your judgment the sooner?” He replied to me and said, ”The creation cannot make more haste than the Creator, neither can the world hold at one time those who have been created in it.”... “Ask a woman’s womb, and say to it, ‘If you bear ten children, why one after another?’ Request it then therefore to produce ten at one time.” I said, “Of course it cannot, but only each in it’s own time.” He said to me, “Even so have I given the womb of the earth to those who from time to time are sown in it. For as an infant dose not bring forth, and a woman who had become old does not bring forth any longer, so have I organized the world which I created.” (Fourth Book of Ezra 5:41-49)





3) THE FUTURE ETERNITY

I also believe that the early Judao-Christian texts make clear that they believed that certain principles pertained to an unending future (an “eternal” future). The thanksgiving prayer in Qumarn texts for example, refers to being saved from sheol, (i.e. the temporary place where dead souls await resurrection and judgement in decensus literature). The souls are to be freed from sheol, and, raised up to a heavenly abode that is NOT temporary, but eternal and everlasting in nature.
Quote:
I give thanks to You, O Lord, for You have redeemed my soul from the pit. From Sheol and Abbadon You have raised me up to an eternal height, so that I might walk about on a limitless plain, and know that there is hope for him whom you created from the dust for the eternal council. The perverse spirit You have cleansed from great transgression, that he might take his stand with the host of the holy ones, and enter together with the congregation of the sons of heaven. And for man, you have allotted an eternal destiny with the spirits of knowledge...” (THANKSGIVING PSALMS - 1QH + 4Q432 Frag. 3 Col. 11:19-23)


Such descriptions make clear that this “eternal” abode is never-ending and is part of a “future eternity”. Speaking of this reward, Enoch say of God :
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He will be generous to the Righteous One, and give him eternal uprightness; he will give authority, and judge in kindness and righteousness; and they shall walk in eternal light. 5 Sin and darkness shall perish forever, and shall no more be seen from that day forevermore. (1st Enoch 92:4-5)


That the Christians understood this ultimate, future heavenly condition is to last for an “eternity” is clearly described in early Christian texts such as Life of Adam and Eve (apo), when, after Adam’s fall, Adam is told that he will die, but that he will be resurrected and become immortal. This period of ultimate resurrected immortality is “forever”.
Quote:
And the Lord turned and said to Adam, ‘From now on I will not allow you to be in Paradise.2 And Adam answered and said, ‘Lord, give me from the tree of life that I might eat before I am cast out.’ 3 Then the Lord spoke to Adam, ‘You shall not now take from it; for it was appointed to the cherubim and the flaming sword which turns to guard it because of you, that you might not taste of it and be immortal forever, but that you might have the strife which the enemy has placed in you. But when you come out of Paradise, if you guard yourself from all evil, preferring death to it, at the time of the resurrection I will raise you again and then there shall be given to you from the tree of life, and you shall be immortal forever.’ (Life of Adam and Eve - apocalypse 28:1-4)
Jewish Haggadah repeats this early doctrine in virtually the same words “ Also, Adam’s prayer, to be given of the fruit of the Tree of Life, was turned aside, with the promise, however, that if he would lead a pious life, he would be given of the fruit on the day of resurrection, and he would then live forever.” (The Haggadah -The Punishment)


When pseudo-Philo describes the time “when there will be another earth and another heaven”, it is “an everlasting dwelling place.” (Pseudo-Philo 3:10)


It is not merely as God tells Ezra, that “I shall liken my judgment to a circle”, but the faithful among mankind returns BACK to their starting place; having experienced a moral education and having made moral choices and moral progress they return back to God in this changed condition, to take part in the very council; the eternal council of the righteous that existed before mortality. But, NOW, they know and are better able to live among those who obey moral laws by which joy is obtained and sustained for a future eternity. Thus the text describes this great circular process of leaving, but then returning in a higher moral condition and degree of knowledge than when one left :
Quote:
For your glory’s sake You have cleansed man from transgression, so that he can purify himself for You from all filthy abominations and the guilt of unfaithfulness, so as to be joined wi[th] the children of Your truth; in the lot with Your saints. That bodies, covered with worms of the dead, might rise up from the dust to an eternal council; from a perverse spirit to your understanding. That he might take his position before you with the eternal hosts and spirits of truth to be renewed with all that shall be and to rejoice together with those who know.” (THANKSGIVING PSALMS - Frags. 10, 34, 42+ 4Q427 Frag. 3 Col. 19:10-14)


It is clear that this ultimate condition is NOT temporary, but is described as having an eternal and unending nature to it :
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2 Blessed are you, righteous and elect ones, for glorious is your portion. 3 The righteous ones shall be in the light of the sun and the elect ones in the light of eternal life which has no end, and the days of the life of the holy ones cannot be numbered. They shall seek light and find righteousness with the Lord of the Spirits. (1st Enoch 58:3)


I hope that it makes sense that the ancient DID have a belief in eternity, but that eternity was necessarily broken up into temporary spaces of time (e.g. pre-mortal period of “time”; mortality; and post-mortal period of time).

Clear

Last edited by Clear lens; 04-07-2011 at 11:14 PM..
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